Who is considering a Beck 904?

[dd74]

Originally posted by sammyg2
PS, an Elise? Seriously. They look like they were drawn up on a scratch pad by a 9th grader daydreaming during history class.
I could never get used to that over the top styling. Plus they will be completely broken down and falling apart very soon if they are true to the Lotus tradition. Maybe if they put a Japanese 4 cylinder watercooled engine in the beck car
Just my opinion.

I know a few Speed Vision track day guys who determine Elises are as solid as 911s -- and much faster...

[Chuck Moreland]

Is it really a "kit" car? That is what everyone chokes on. Visions of Bradley's on VW pans...... All show no go.

This isn't a kit car. It's being sold complete, sans drivetrain. The reason they don't put the motor in is so you can register it for the street. It's technically a kit car and can be titled to the year of the motor (read no-smog check), and the manufacturer doesn't have to go through crash testing etc.

In reality this is a new limited production sports car. Styled like a 904, it uses Porshe parts so you can take it to your favorite independant shop for service.

Limited production hand built cars are expensive to manufacture. If the build quality is high, $50k isn't bad.

These things aren't stamped out like toyotas. If Beck sells 100/year they are probably doing very well. That's just $5M gross, from which they need to actually build all those cars and recover their investment in development. And try to scratch out a profit so they can actually stay in business and do it again.

I saw the 3.6 liter prototype and was impressed.

[svandamme]

new Ford GT's make baby Jezus cry just the same
doesn't matter that it's factory built , it's just a another replicar

i'de have more respect for a well built kit car with a unique design(good looks , a turd will still be a turd no matter how unique they are crapped out )

[JeremyD]

Originally posted by svandamme
i assume y'all got ****loads of Rolexes at home , with a faceplate marked "Rolexx" ? i mean, it's important to have everything matched and color coordinate , might as well match and fakecoordinate the rest too..

And Stijn - It's "Bolex"

If I forget to screw the crown in my watch - and go swimming in saltwater - I'd prefer if it was a Bolex rather than a Rolex.

When I drive at the track, I'd prefer to have a Beck 904 than a real 904 - I don't have that sort of money - or Cajones.

... and Baby Jesus is crying because he can't drive and have fun like the rest of us...

[svandamme]

baby Jezus drives allright, i've seen him tear ass over at Spa in a concourse state, white 1973 S targa... he was ****faced drunk and still would ave smoked any mortal without even breaking a sweat. he did modify the engine slightly with some special equipment he got from his dad...

[911teo]

I don't like to make Baby Jesus cry... But I do not have anything against a kit car or clone or replicas.

I would not buy the Beck 904 and I think an Exsige 340R would spank it around a race track...
I would certainly get a 917K replica and I am thinking of ordering a Ford GT...
I think the real 904s, Ford GT 40s, 934s, 917s should be raced and should not sit in a museum. Personally I do not justify spending that amount of money on a car. But to me it is just a way of having fun.

That's why the Beck 904 is a great idea in my opinion. Not my cup of tea though..

[RickM]

So, what is a "modernized suspension" comprised of? Handmade, VW, Porsche, Fiero or all/other parts?

Also, why would he use a 901? For the shift pattern?

[JeremyD]

I guess we can't all have "s" longhoods - so we will all be relegated to plain 911 or facsimile car purgatory.

and I am perfectly fine with that.

I also agree with Chuck Moreland - not like this thing is a Bradley GT - Or Lazer 917... if you read the excellence article - it describes in pretty good detail all the details Chuck Beck has employed.

I have a friend who works at *********** and was there when chuck (beck this time) bought the 3.2 version by. He said the car was awesome - and Chuck Beck has such passion for this car that everybody was asking what he was on...

I guess we can start discounting all these cars on this board that are not real. Jack's BBII - Chuck's gulf blue beauty. Matteo's 934 look alike, Bob Tilton's 911R. I guess the real question becomes where do you draw the line and which cars are going to make baby jesus cry and which ones do we need to saddle with the PORTIA manufacturer emblem.

[dd74]

Originally posted by RickM
So, what is a "modernized suspension" comprised of? Handmade, VW, Porsche, Fiero or all/other parts?

Also, why would he use a 901? For the shift pattern?

Good question. My answer would be because it's a kit car. Kit car is one of those phrases to which many definitions can be applied. No doubt Beck (or whomever) would try to improve upon the original, and Beck does have a good reputation. So I'd feel safer buying a Beck than a kit car from various others.

The main problem with Beck and all other kit cars is R&R. How thoroughly developed is the 904? By mention of the 901 transmission alone raises a red flag when Porsche, as a manufacturer, used nothing less than a G50 with engines developing as little as 200 hp. The 904 engine, according to the stat sheet, develops 275 from a 3.2. That's going to be hard on a 901 when the overall car itself is meant for very vigorous driving.

"Modernized suspensions," yeah, we've all modernized our suspensions to a degree - bigger torsions, better shocks, turbo tie rods, monoballs etc., so I see that as an actual improvement over the original machine which, back in the day, may not have had access to such items as, for example, hollow torsion bars.

One potential issue with the 904 lies in whether or not Beck backs the car up, and for how long. Is there a true warranty? With an Elise, a Z06 or even a 997, there's a warranty. Not to mention (again), all parts are included.

But the main engineering factor is the R&R. No one can tell me Beck has put as much effort into R&R as Porsche, who has hundreds of millions, if not a few billion more dollars to truly develop such a car. This is what makes a kit car a little less desireable than a factory car.

On the plus side, I like the Beck because of something that I don't think have been yet mentioned:

It's made in America. That way, it's easier to reach Beck or even visit them than it is to get in touch with, for example, a British manufacturer of kit cars. For what it's worth, this adds a measure of reassurance to the overall project.

[dd74]

Originally posted by JeremyD
I guess we can start discounting all these cars on this board that are not real. Jack's BBII - Chuck's gulf blue beauty. Matteo's 934 look alike, Bob Tilton's 911R. I guess the real question becomes where do you draw the line and which cars are going to make baby jesus cry and which ones do we need to saddle with the PORTIA manufacturer emblem.

Yes, another good point. There is, of course, a school of thought that the factory engineers know best - sort of like mother knows best. And that the 911 in many ways needs no improvement. I think it was Boris Said who stated a good driver in a bone stock car could destroy a so-so driver in a modified car. Yes, so we know. But altruistic opinions by factory engineers and race drivers aside, I think what we do is a matter of personal taste, and should be left as much.

[911teo]

Jeremy very well said.
I do not know where you draw the line... Take Jack's car that is worshipped here.... He's got very many non Porsche components on it.
Is it still a Porsche? or is it a Smith-Olsen with a Porsche drivetrain?

I think baby Jesus would like to have a spin in BBII.

I am sure Jack is pretty happy with it, so is Chuck. Jeremy has instead a Porsche 911 with a JD drivetrain...

I think the Beck is another option for someone with $70k looking for a fun car.
It's got its pros...
- unique
- somewhat Porsche related
- perfomance
- hand made
- customizable

and its contras (somewhat Porsche related, handmade etc)....

Personally I'd get something else for that money... our modified cars are as "bastardized" as a Beck...

PS
I have taken all the badges off my car....

[svandamme]

kitting a stock 911 to look like a 911 RSR is not the same
it's the same chassis , the same base

although i prefer original engine and intake system
it's not exacly blasphemy either, Porsche modded the hell out of them cars from the factory out, that's what an S-T , and R , an RS or RSR basically is.

fabbing up some car out of nothing to replicate what the factory did is just a rippoff and it's a 100% fake , doesn't matter how realistic the replication is.. it's a waste of fabrication skill based on lack in creativity
i haven't got the fabrication skills, but if i would, i sure as hell wouldn't waste it on copycatting other peoples passion in life&design
although i'm sure it's makes good money..

have a look at Spyker, they revamped an old aircraft company brandname, and whipped up a completely new and unique car, it may not be my cup of tea , but it's unique, and they entered it in Le Mans...

http://www.spykercars.com/

they could ave simply built replica's of whatever , but they choose to be different and design something of their own...a real car with unique character.

[911teo]

Stijn
I see your point (modifying a base Vs bilding a copycat from scratch) but it's a fine line... especially when u use the same parts (or as many as possible)....
Imagine I buy an SC tub and make a 935 out of it.... and call it Teo 935... Not that different from a Beck 904, no?

[Jack Olsen]

Originally posted by 911teo
[Jack's car has] got very many non Porsche components on it.
Is it still a Porsche? or is it a Smith-Olsen with a Porsche drivetrain?

Virtually everything in my car is Porsche factory, or an aftermarket Porsche-specific part.

Well, there are those J.C. Whitney armrests.

But to this specific discussion, I think there are two ways to look at these cars. If you're a museum-curator type, then there are only a limited number of original 904's and they are precious and unique. If you're an engineer-racer type, then you don't care as much about authenticity. You want to keep improving on the product you like, and drive it so fast that there's a reasonable chance you might destroy it.

I've seen the Beck 904 in person, and I've seen an original 904. Neither has 'new car' fit and finish. Both are pretty cool, though.

If I had a choice, I'd definitely get the Beck. You'd have to be a very rich man or a fool to race an original 904. The Beck just begs to be tracked.

We probably all agree that the Fiero- or Beetle-based kit cars are kind of lame. But the Beck isn't one of those at all. It would hand an original 904 it's butt on a race course. To me, that's important to note.

[svandamme]

a factory 935 started it's design phase as a 930, which is realistically a still the 911 chassis...

Beck 904 or 550 aren't even remotely based on a Porsche chassis , let alone something remotely linked.

that's still a lot of difference to me

let's bring up the 962 Dauer, you can still buy those puppies for lot's of money... you could almost call that one a replicar, if only it weren't so that Dauer is from Stuttgart and had some kind of joint venture with Porsche for racing purposes... Their website mentions "Dauer is the only one who received approval from Porsche during the project and factory collaboration"... Let's call it a Porsche Dauer, it's based on a 956, the factory collaborated and approved... Road legal and it won Le Mans with Porsche people in the Pit's...

[911teo]

So we like the Dauer, right?

[svandamme]

and if racing performance is the issue, then there's better ways to get performance than building something with a replica look in mind...
way better ways.

who want's to track something that's inherently not optimized to perform, since it was designed just to look prety (B904)as opposed to handle(Lotus Elise or something similar)

the term "Racing is Life, everything else is waiting"
didn't have "and looking pretty is important too" attached to it


yeah the Dauer is pretty sweet, although most of the ones that got sold unfortunately aren't drivven the snot out of em , haven't seen any pics show up anywhere so it's safe to assume that those puppies are locked in somebody's garage( probably out of fear of killing oneself in such a beast )

[svandamme]

that is correct , they are the Devil's work and they make baby jezus cry

[alwaysflat6s]

Gentlemen,
You need to consider... history. I realize a lot of you are mere lads but much of the BS being discussed here is countered by history.

First, when Chuck Beck originally built his wonderful 550, you could buy a nice Porsche 550 for under $30k. He was not trying to make a poor man's 550 so much as he was trying to make a 550 that someone could buy and play with and ENJOY driving it.

Back in these days there resided a straight talking "car salesman", also named Chuck, at none other than Fantasy Junction, then located in Berkeley. Among their fascinating stock was Churck's personal 550. I was foolish enough to consider buying it. Chuck was kind enough to explain why it was a miserable street driver and what I might prefer to own. He didn't give a damn if I bought his car or not, as he knew someone would want his fairly priced, decent condition, 550.
One of his suggestions was the relatively new on the market Beck 550. Why? The Beck was designed to be enjoyed as a street car. Not a THROW AWAY race car [for those of you who do not realize, that is precisely what they all were. Built just well enough to hold together through a race and then be totally rebuilt or replaced].

I didn't bite on the Beck. A few years later I considered a 904 that had come in with a package from Europe. Same thing. Sitting in it and you could tell what it was designed for. It pretty much looked like the underside of an early RS ducktail. Door fit? HA! Gaps? You want GAPS?? It was a race car. The entire structure was built to the standard of it lasting only long enough before the next series of race cars. There was a great long story in Pano in the late 70s [?] about a guy in the East Coast who bough a 904 and reguilt everything to make it a street car. Re-engineered is a more proper description.


[F.J. was not advising me on "automotive investments" at that time- obviously- they knew I was going to drive the pee out of whatever I ended up with and they wanted me to be happy. I finally got a 73 RS w/2.8. It was great. I was happy. It was much faster than my first 930 and most everything I ever met on the road. It ran with much faster cars on the track. I remember running in POC Red group at Laguna and hounding all those guys with their super wide slicks. It was wonderful. [Aside- at the time most people- includeing Porsche types- had not a clue what an RS was about so, except for the loud graphics, it was a low key super enthusiast's dream.

The Beck 550 is stronger in pretty much every way than a Porsche 550. It weighs over 100lb more also. It has more power than the real car and is faster and quicker. Of course, technology has marched on and these cars benefit.

This 904 is a totally different animal. It is a BECK car inspired by what the 904 COULD have been if it had been intended as a street car. All of the changes are designed for making it work as a real world driver and more reliable and easy to find parts for.

It is on my short list.

I cannot claim to own a Beck 550. I can claim that my WIFE owns one! I sold a Speedster that she dearly loved. She always let me know how unhappy she was about that. A friend sent us info on this particular Beck [interesting in it's own right as it was built just after they figured out all the issues but well before they transferred the building to Brazil]. It is one of the rare and desirable "California surfer built 550s".

She does let me drive it. :->

Last- that guy in Australia making the 917s. YES! But where are you gonna drive it? I chatted with him a while back. He is also building a 908/2 replica. Now THAT is the most fun. If you can figure out how to register it.. and not run into anything. Fantasy Junction [now in Emeryville, Ca] has one of these 917s on consignment at the moment. Interesting car. Particular example is VERY expeisive tho. Of couse, it doesn't fall apart like the originals did. You DO know the originals fell apart?

Anyway, I am a definite canidate. I think this 904 will be a pretty, fun and exciting car.

[DonNewton]

"they are the Devil's work and they make baby jezus cry"

Enough. You're becoming very tiring. Get over it. If someone wants to spend 50K OF THEIR MONEY, you pretty much don't get a vote. If you don't like them, don't buy them.