Who is considering a Beck 904?

[ljd-924SC]

Originally posted by svandamme
Beck 904 or 550 aren't even remotely based on a Porsche chassis , let alone something remotely linked.

Wrong!!! The Beck 904 replica uses the same frame design as the original, but with thicker tubing, a reinforced cage, and changes to the suspension geometry, which are better suited to the 8" front, 10" rear tires, compared to the original's 5.5" rears. The springs and shocks themselves are obviously modern components as well. Now, the 550 is a different story.

Originally posted by unclebilly
My concern is that many of these low volume custom car manufacturers don't really do any engineering (stress calcs, fatigue analysis, safety engineering and the like ...

Since the frame was designed in the 60's, there were probably very few safety considerations, but that's a good thing in my book. It's chassis is not restricted by crash test ratings.

And the frame design was engineered by Porsche, way back before economists were even born.

Remember this was the last true dual purpose track/street car porsche ever made. The 911 was a unibody streetcar from day one.

[TRE Cup]

nanparsei: the car was featured in a Porsche sport book that clearly showed the Alamo born Spyder with 914 rear suspension section and control arms. As you said he could fabricate anything so the chassis was most likely a grouping of production and custom parts.

anyone remember the crash tests that porsche engineers put the 904 thru? they calculated what speed the car would have to pass a barrier crash test for TUV, then hoisted it proper amount on a crane and let it loose into the ground!! there is a picture in excellence was expected, as well as other places. Funny how they didn't show an after picture....

btw- the front suspension geometry on the beck version is patterned after a chevron b-16 coupe. According to Chuck a much better set up than the oe porsche. He may yet change it to suit his requirements

[Shuie]

I could care less who cries. I will own one someday.

[Ed Bighi]

Originally posted by svandamme
let's bring up the 962 Dauer, you can still buy those puppies for lot's of money... you could almost call that one a replicar, if only it weren't so that Dauer is from Stuttgart and had some kind of joint venture with Porsche for racing purposes... Their website mentions "Dauer is the only one who received approval from Porsche during the project and factory collaboration"... Let's call it a Porsche Dauer, it's based on a 956, the factory collaborated and approved... Road legal and it won Le Mans with Porsche people in the Pit's...

I think a lot of people don't really know what was going on or is going on as far as anything other than the street cars are concerned. First, the subject of Dauer. Dauer is no replicar. Yes Porsche approved. Why? Because a Dauer starts as 962. First you get a 962. With race history. Than you take the body off and put on a modified 962 body (lower drag, lower downforce), block off the ground effects so it does not have to be so stiffly sprung, put in some upholstery and leather inside, rear view tv, ac and you've got a Dauer. Vern Schuppan used to do the same thing before Jochen Dauer started.

Now, on the subject of 962's. While all 956's were made in Germany by Porsche, not all 962's were made in Germany. Not all in Germany were made by Porsche. Quite a few were made in the US. Al Holbert built a couple. In fact he improved on the original's by better riveting and a few other items and came up with a stronger and stiffer car. I think Fabcar also built a couple. Besides, when you have all the parts, just wrecked a chassis, and have the sponsors pouring in the money, are you willing to wait for the Weissach race department to build a new one? No. You just call Holbert or Fabcar. Look at the list of 962's built, and check out all the non-factory cars. The most successful one in IMSA was never built by Porsche. There might be even be more within that list with aftermarket tubs.
http://962.com/registry/956_962/index.htm?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=962&Category_Code=apparel




In fact that was the case with some 935's. Sometimes they just went around town trying to find the cheapest 930 tub they could get to prepare a crashed car for the following week. Sometimes even an SC tub had to do. Here is an example. The car below started as a bona-fide 935. Then at some point they needed a new tub, a sunroof SC tub was found, the sunroof was welded, and here it is after everything was bolted on. Is anybody going to say this isn't a 935? Besides, the BP 935 has it's own history.

Even one of the original RSR turbos was a modified RSR 2.8. Is a Kremer K3 really a Porsche or a 750hp 930? With race cars, originality was never paramount. The ends justified the means.

So as to Beck's car, if one wants to bother with technicalities, go ahead. But it isn't much different than Al Holbert building what he saw as a better 962. It certainly worked very well for him. The achievements of HR1 speak for themselves. Oh, but it's not original, some could say. Like Holbert gave a crap. Like I would give a crap about the fact that Porsche did not build HR1 if I owned it. Besides, considering there were probably no more than two flat six 904's, the fact that I could drive one with virtually the same chassis at 11/10ths because of the much cheaper price is a very nice thing indeed.

[leibniz]

I am shocked at the amount of negativity that has erupted from this simple query. I am interested in a 904 replica, although the Beck version isn't a replica, it simply has a semblance to the original design. It just does not look like a real 904. I am considering the vehicle at Auto Atlanta but am in no way highly charged about the Beck. I don't see the same beauty in these as I do in the Beck Spyders, although I have just seen photos of cars 1 and 2. I hope they improve upon this rough sketch. The price tag doesn't set me off in the least. I would rather pay 120k to know that I am getting a well-appointed vehicle with the best components than a car I would have to pay a significant amount of money improving upon.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Go here--www.fixeleanor.com--to see what some "manufacturers" do to create a sellable "continuation car."

[drauz]

I looked over the Beck cars at RRIII. There were two body styles, one very much like the Porsche 904 and the other was the flared silver one as shown in Ex. They also had a bare chassis so you could inspect the reinforced, stainless steel construction. I was impressed by what I saw and what I heard (from Chuck & crew).

I suspect that the flared version approach is desirable if you use a 300+hp motor and go to the track, where wide wheels are advisable. Not a bad looking sports car if you can stand the deviation from Porsche factory appearance (a review of competition 904s reveals the factory deviated too). If you can't, get the std style & put in a 616 motor, VW or 2.7/3.0/3.2.

Or be horrified by the concept entirely & ***** about it.
As for me, I have always been impressed by Chuck Beck's vision, engineering prowess and committment (if not business acumen & luck). He is an American original, a hot-rodder of the Porsche VW fringe. Good for him.

[jester911]

I have met Chuck Beck and chatted with him several times. He sometimes shows up at a local drive in car meet locally. I have viewed his personal 904 replica and it may not be an exact copy but it has proven itself numerous times on the track and personally I think it looks great.
It is one of the few replica cars I would consider.

[spuggy]

Surprised no one has mentioned Martin & Walkers' 904 GTS, http://www.technic-motorsport.com/M&W%20Site/index.html, which has been available - hand-built to customer's specification - for years.

As to authenticity, a car was built that was considered authentic enough to be permitted to compete in the Carrera Panamericana race 3 times - with Dieter of Andial building a 906 race motor for it: http://www.technic-motorsport.com/M&W%20Site/904/904%20panam.html

I read a review of these cars in some rag a while back - it's very rapid with a 3.0 motor in it. They have a customer who owns a real 904, who bought one of their cars so he could drive it on the road with an easy mind...

Covin? Puh-leeze...

[mjshira]

so are these cars available to order from Beck now or what?

[mjshira]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

Go here--www.fixeleanor.com--to see what some "manufacturers" do to create a sellable "continuation car."

WOW! can you imagine paying all that money for a POS??!!!

[RRico]

James,
You can order the Beck 904, however he is only doing 5 cars at a time.

[mjshira]

thank you Sir. so I guess it is a matter of 50k and then wait? is there a website?

[drauz]

I got his card, no website on it, phone # 678-787-3399 in GA.
5 units / production lot for the present was what I understood as well. I hope it takes off as a business proposition, I think the engineering & finish is there & the demand (though small) is real.

[plymouthcolt]

For $50k I would rather buy a real Porsche.

[Joe Bob]

Hate to be a wet blanket.....but.....Depending on where you live, the power plant needs to be smog legal for the year it's BUILT!

Some states give out limitted exemptions for "home builts"....CA does 500 a year for the WHOLE state. I got one on January 2nd last year.....they were all gone by 8:30 am.

The Type I or Type IV Vw motor will not pass smog....a modern 911 motor is now water cooled, so you'd need a radiator.....the aircooled 911 is no longer Federally, CARB or State smog approved....so.....what are you gonna power it with?

Of course if it's just going to be a track car......don't worry about it.

Be advised if it's caught on the road, they can confiscate it and crush it....I think they did that to a 959 that was over here before you could legally import them....the owner of the LA Times, I think. Otis Chandler....

[2002M3Drew]

My mechanic (a race shop here in NJ) has had one of the prototype 904s in his sop for a while. This one has a very hot 3.2 in it.

I'm looking at it this way...

A Lotus Exige S in US trim has, what, 230HP? And it weighs around 2100lbs.

Many local hot 914s with 2.7s and 3.2s stuffed in them weigh around 1700-1800 lbs.

This 904 weighs something like 1400-1500 lbs if I recall correctly, and can be running a 3.2 with upwards of 280 hp. That's serious P/W ratio.

The car looks fabulous, and my mechanic (a race driver himself) said the car screams. He also was impressed with the structure of the car, the tubing, etc. It looked pretty purpose-built to me.

[RRico]

The website is http://chuckbeck904.com

There are no prices there however a completed roller (no engine/trans) will be
between 50K-60K depending on your personal touches / mods.

It is designed for a 3.0 to 3.6 in mind.
The "wet" weight is 1720lbs.

[911teo]

Some ovservations...

- $50k is not much money for a bespoke handbuilt car capable of that performance
- The Beck 904 might not be a Porsche but certainly has not less Porsche parts in it that some RS/RSR clones (mine included)
- The pleasure of having a true unique car that any Porsche mechanic can work on is priceless.

If I had more space in my garage I would not hesitate in signing the check....

[Jay Laifman]

Originally Posted by mikez

Hate to be a wet blanket.....but.....Depending on where you live, the power plant needs to be smog legal for the year it's BUILT!

Some states give out limitted exemptions for "home builts"....CA does 500 a year for the WHOLE state. I got one on January 2nd last year.....they were all gone by 8:30 am.

The Type I or Type IV Vw motor will not pass smog....a modern 911 motor is now water cooled, so you'd need a radiator.....the aircooled 911 is no longer Federally, CARB or State smog approved....so.....what are you gonna power it with?

Of course if it's just going to be a track car......don't worry about it.

Be advised if it's caught on the road, they can confiscate it and crush it....I think they did that to a 959 that was over here before you could legally import them....the owner of the LA Times, I think. Otis Chandler....

All very true. I have a kit car I built with my dad 30 years ago - yeah, it's not a Porsche (I've got two of those), but it sure has 10x more pride of ownership. Anyway, I was pulled over by a cop the other day when he said "My here computer says that there is a 1971 VW. Sure don't look like no VW to me..." He did threaten that he needed to have the car confiscated. After some discussion, which actually turned into a very nice conversation, he did let me go. I think I can argue I'm grandfathered in by it being 30 years old. But, I'm still looking into it. Here's some pictures by the way, and it's powered by a 1987 Fiero GT V6.