From Keith and Aaron...

"OH NO!!!

Matteo – Tuesday afternoon, we discovered that the front crossmember of the ’74 was rusted out.

We amputated the ’88 for the galvanized one and performed a transplant.

This unforeseen surgery was successful. The patient will live.

At Zuffenhaus, we can rebuild him – we have the technology… stronger… faster… better. ;) "


And the mandatory pics

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150993164.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150993171.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150993195.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1150993368.jpg



I wonder now how much of the original 74 tub there is left in the car....

The mother of all builds.........

I know this is going to seem like a dumb question, BUT, why wasn't a cleaner donor car used? Considering the budget of this project, it would seem that the donor car/chassis is the least expensive component.
j.p.

It was thought to be clean, it was there, it was avaliable, it had already the early style turbo flares at the back, it was straight.

Not much has been used of the tub anyway. The rust in the front crossmember was a surprise.

this is mental. i love the way your guys don't give a fuk about cutting large chunks of your car out. a very inspirational thread

My only possible regret is that we could have started with a 993 tub and backdate it.

Lots of advantages (better rear suspensions, perfect fit for the transmission, increased chassis rigidity) but we couldn't find one in good condition and I didn't want to wait too long.

Maybe it would have been wiser to wait (it did take a looooong time to swap the floor)....

don't talk to me about waiting a loooooooooooong time for stuff! im still building my engine after two years!

911teo:
Seeing the capabilities of the guys in the shop... I share jpahemi 's question, and go further.......you couldn't have used your original 88 tub?You said at the outset the original car was bent too bad...but after all the grafting, etc...why not?

( Reminds me of the old codger's story..."Yep, same axe. Replaced the head two times and the handle three times...but it's the same axe")

- Wil

Smogging a post-1975 car could have become a bigger hassle.

True, Aaron and Keith could have fixed the 88. Then again they suggested we used the 74 tub.

In terms of money the 74 tub came really cheap, less than th cost of fixing the 88.

So we had a straight non sunroof tub vs a bent galvanized one with a hole in the roof ;).

For me it was an easy choice....

We are nealry there... Keith and AAron finished with the tub.

It will go to get "baked" and powder coated by the end of this week.

At Zuffenhaus they finished
- tiding up the floor
- lowered the seat rails mounts (every little bit counts... lower CG and more headroom)
- fabricating an RSR "style" front strut brace
- fabricating a removable roll bar (I don't want to lose the rear seats... as I will use the car as a grocery getter with my 2 little girls)

These are a couple of pics of the finished floor pan and how the 964 center tunnel meets the 74 tub

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590233.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590245.jpg


The new position of the seat rails

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590415.jpg

These are the pics of the front strut bar.

We liked the idea of a removable bar (better access to the tank etc) and I (and Keith) loved the RS(R)s solution...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590583.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590597.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590611.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590625.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590640.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590656.jpg

Whilst Keith was working on the strut bar Aaron was putting together a removable roll bar.

Aaron welded the plates to the tub, bu the entire structure should be easily mounted just before the track days, leaving me still with a 2+2.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590884.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590894.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590905.jpg



And finally the car is ready to leave Zuffenhaus....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590964.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1151590978.jpg

Nice bracing connecting the booster and the tub!

Love your project....but you must of nixed the idea of your kids sitting in the backseat. Completely unsafe now with a roll bar sitting right in front of them. This story has more twist and turns then "Pulp Fiction".

Actually the roll bar is removable. Only the plates have ween welded to the tub.

I decided to go for the bar istead of a cage because of the idea of keeping it a street car. Maybe I am a little naive and I will never use it that way. We'll see.

But I completely agree with you when you say it would be unsafe to have the kids in the back seat with the roll bar.

Matteo

Have you though about integrating some side impact braces into your roll bar to run diagonally along the door sills? The added protection provides me with an extra feeling of security when track speeds approach 140 mph.

any pictures of this car build? I'm doing almost the same on my personal car... would love to see some motivational shots (hard to kindle the desire to work on my stuff after work, lol).

If you're looking at 400 hp and 2300 lbs in a car meant for track duty, then I'd think seriously about a full cage. At least with removeable side impact bars. Especially when all this work is already being done, and you'd benefit from the stiffer chassis, too.

Concerning side impact bars without a full cage:

first off, I'd love to have the opportunity to build matteo a proper, full cage, tied well to the chassis with good impact and load distribution.

However, the requirement at this time, is to be able to remove the rollover protection for the safety of the rear seat passengers. This is the priority here in terms of safety. The addition of a diagonal side bar would prohibit removal of the rear section, thereby negating the primary requirement.

The diagonal member could be bolt-in you say? Well that further reduces the protection offered by an already largely inneffective single diagonal side impact bar (sort of like the bar found in the door of most cars, eh?). If the diagonal makes you drive faster, there's reason enough to put it in. In this instance, a full cage is the eventual logical solution, temporarily postponed until the little girls are too large to ride around in the back seat. At that point, I'll full cage this thing for their safety when matteo lets them drive on the track!

HA! this car is supposedly still my daily driver. It is not a race car nor I am going to race it yet.

So I realize there are advantages in going with a full cage in terms of stiffness but for the moment I think it is not the car limiting my lap times.

In terms of safety it is clear that a side impact bar would improve the situation but since the car at the moment will only be used for DEs and not door to door racing I assume an accident where I am going to get T-boned is somewhat less likely.

On the other hand I would not be entirely comfortable in driving on the street with a full cage.

Think of this like a GT3 RS... It comes from the factory with just a roll bar.

Another consideration is the fact that we are going to move to Europe sometimes in the next 24 months. I don't know how easy is to acheive street homologation of a car with a full welded cage.

In any event Keith and Aaron are the experts here. There are people that come from the West coast to have Zuffenhaus build their cage so I left them (with basically most of the build anyway) in charge with carte blanche.

Why is side impact an issue? Does it have fiberglass doors?

nope, stock, steel doors.
not an issue unless he gets parked sideways ot a DE in front of a first time-student who is covering his eyes in panic... or similar...
;^)

OIL ducts
 

Keith and AAron just sent me some pics of the solution they came up with for the oil cooling ducts.

This is another example of how good these guys are. I have seen it in person and the picture just do not do it justice.

As you can see the ducts will easily clear the fuel cell and "should" provide a big enough route for the air to flow nicely

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152119656.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152119726.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152119742.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152119878.jpg

What is left to do before the car go to throught the poweder coating process is:

- Single wiper conversion
- Mounting arrangements for fire system
- Make clearance for oil line in rear fender (tires are so wide that there is no room in the wheel wells)

Some more pics of the oil ducts....


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152120074.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152120090.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152120123.jpg

Matteo,

"Daily driver"??? Yea, like a F-15 is a putt putt airplane just to get around with! :)

Cannot wait to see this one on the road or track! Beautiful work!

JoeA

I'd be tempted to ditch the tubes and just fair in the entire area with sheet metal to form an enclosed non-round "tube" for flow...

I will let Keith answer this one as he performed the surgery.

this car is SICK! I love it.

Randy - we considered that also... I just really liked the look of the gentle arcing hoses... I suppose it will easier to clean any stray debris out with removeable hoses, also...

That being said, I need to weld some screen over the wheel well end of the tubes...

I suppose if maximum flow/cooling was absolutely necessary, two seperate coolers mounted against the sides with air force fed into them from a collossal center duct would be the ticket. (like Porsche did)

Damn! Damn! Damn! This is way beyond sick! Really nice work by everyone involved.
Good for you Matteo in building exactly what you want. It may not make sense to some people, but in the end, if it makes you happy, you've succeeded in building your dream car.

"I just really liked the look of the gentle arcing hoses..."

- I agree -- it does look good!

I promise the next pics will be of the Blue car...

These are pics of the oil lines. The tires will be quite wide and Keith thought it was best to move the oil lines so that they wouldn't interfere...

Note as the oil tank has been moved forward to the rear axis... impoving the weight distribution...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152290820.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152290831.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152290846.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152290863.jpg



And these are of the single wifer conversion....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152290916.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152290931.jpg

Great Fab work - keep the oil tank detail coming!

Any thought of splitting the oil cooler air duct to the brakes? You have created serious air flow with the nice sheet metal.

Sherwood

Matteo, Whats involved in the single wiper mod (other than the metal work)? Do you still use the same motor and modify the stock linkage?
TIA

We'l' use the dedicated holes in the IROC bumper for the brakes, at least at the beginning.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1152296151.jpg


The front disc have a 322mm diameter and the car should come in at around 2,300lbs.

If we need extra cooling I guess we could do that....

I think you need to use a 944 wiper motor. I asked Keith at Zuffenhaus (the expert in these things) if it was difficult to do or labor intensive and he said it was a must for my car....

I will get you some more dets.

To be honest I am only doing it because the car is going to be repainted. I am not sure the benefits are worth the costs for a nice looking car.

Matteo, is it necessary to move oil lines for those tires? I'm putting the same size (315/35-17 Victoracers) in the rear on mine and P-Doc didn't mention that it would be a problem. The Lindsey's I will be using have a different offset than those that mount on a carrera trailing arm...that much I know. Don spoke to Mike Lindsey about it...they have their own specs for rims used on turbo trailing arms. I won't be using turbo spacers but will use a 1/4"spacer to move it out slightly. I plan on using the stock thermostat & Elephant Racing hard oil lines. Maybe it's just because of the relocation of your oil tank. I know I've read in the past that 315's should fit no problem...it's when you go larger that you may have issues.