If any ...what are the 993's biggest short-comings?

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by jmz
...how are the whine & cheese braggarts different from the way many of the long-hood snobs view the post 74 crowd? both are kind of snobby in there own way.

I'll admit to some snobbery there...not based on the people, but on the aesthetics of the cars. I went looking for a used car the day I first saw the bellows bumpers in a 1974 dealership showroom. I hated the bumpers then, I still do today. I loved it when the 993 came along & the bumpercar look was gone. Sorry, but it's pure aesthetics with me..I wouldn't have a "bumpercar" in my garage.

[Moses]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Sorry, but it's pure aesthetics with me..I wouldn't have a "bumpercar" in my garage.

I agree completely. It's the main reason I put glass bumpers on my SC. For the life of me I can't figure out why someone doesnt make paintable fiberglass panels to replace the bumper bellows. Just paint 'em and bolt 'em on. I think they would sell.

[GIBSON]

I'm completely addicted to the look of the 993. It's such a perfect combination of design and performance. I'm fortunate enough to have the best of all 911 designs (predjudiced of course), the early pre-impact bumper 911 and the 993. I owned an '86 Targa for years and it was a great car- I'd have it today if I had a decent sized garage. I don't so I'm enjoying 2 911's, probably the last 2 I'll own.
Downsides to the 993? Probably having to make them pass smog and the resulting plumbing, I could do without that but that's about it....

[Bill Verburg]

Downsides to the 993? Probably having to make them pass smog and the resulting plumbing

I agree, that's why I stopped looking at '96 up.

For street use the supension, trans, clutch, brakes etc are all fine out of the box.

More sporting usage would want upgrades in all of those areas, How sporting is up to your budget and taste.

[ischmitz]

I'd say the one of the weaknesses is its weight. I once drove a 97C4 and was disapointed by its shear lack of punch. But the again I might be spoiled by a 2300 point early 3.6 conversion

The other thing to consider is the multi-link Weissach rear axle. I have heard some saying they don't like the way in interferes with your driving on the track. You have to adapt your style and can't throttle-stear it as easy as an earlier car. But then I again, that propably does not apply unless you are out to race competitive. For an every day driver you could say it is an improvement (if it wasn't for all the weight in the rear)

Overall IMHO the 993 4S or 2S widebody is probably one of the nicest-looking cars in the 911 lineup.

Cheers,
Ingo

[randywebb]

It's more of a GT car - could be adv. or dis-adv. depending on your interest.

What about the "w[]ine & cheese [rednecks] ... whose checkbooks" are so light they "wave" in the slightest breeze?

Modifying Paul's comment gives the biggest drawback to me. I know I can fix anything on my early car. The 993 is very complex (see BV smogging comment above) and access is difficult. Not to mention all the elctronic gizmo stuff. I can deal with electronics if I have to... but long experience [mostly in non-automotive areas] makes me try to stay away from having to.

If I had a competent shop nearby and could trust them and afford such a thing + afford the cost of the car itself then I'd love to have one for long trips. But I just see headaches and cost in the future for such a purchase. Those who live in a big city won't have some of those problems... But I still think the repair cost will be a biggie, even as the acquisition cost drops lower and lower into the range of the older 911s.

The electronics on the 993 aren't one of the problem areas and generally the car is very DIY friendly. It's just a different mindset form earlier cars. There's a huge 993 community dedicated to diy plus many online resources.

I wouldn't old my breath waiting for the 993 to depreciate. They have gotten more expensive over the last few years. 996 is a different story.

[Jim Richards]

Originally posted by randywebb
I know I can fix anything on my early car. The 993 is very complex (see BV smogging comment above) and access is difficult. Not to mention all the elctronic gizmo stuff. I can deal with electronics if I have to... but long experience [mostly in non-automotive areas] makes me try to stay away from having to.

I DiY'ed on my 95 993 for a few years without too many complaints. It's a bit more complex than a 3.2 Carrera, and having to realign the beast after my clutch/flywheel R&R kinda sucked, but overall I would rate it as DiY friendly. Well, at least compared to my wife's Civic grocery getter.

[nostatic]

From time to time I have pondered trying to find a 993 to use as my daily driver, keeping the SC as my track car and selling the Subie. I'm not sure that I could live with one as I occasionally need back seat use and have to be able to haul my bass gear. And it's hard to give up the relatively cheap Subie...I'd rather spend the extra money on the SC (as I am right now - uggh)

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Moses
I agree completely. It's the main reason I put glass bumpers on my SC. For the life of me I can't figure out why someone doesnt make paintable fiberglass panels to replace the bumper bellows. Just paint 'em and bolt 'em on. I think they would sell.

I don't see anything wrong with the bellows look...but maybe I'm biased

[edward993]

5+ years of ownership, 3 of which track/street dual duty.

Wives tales:
- valve guides ...no "leakier" than earlier cars, and wear depends largely on the PO and the planet's alignment
- not a track-worthy car ...ha! great feeling, and very forgiving and predictable once the stock suspension is replace (see below).
- less DIY-friendly ...no and yes. No valve adjustment, but plugs are stupidly annoying to replace. Oil/filters require a bit more time, but not the nightmare it's made to be. The rest of the car, incl it's electronics, have proven bulletproof (carry a spare DME relay, but that's nothing unique to the 993).
- too much of a GT luxo car ...approach the suspension issue; problem solved.
- clutch or DMF weak. ...I've got 100K miles, a good amount of that on the track, still orig clutch and solid DMF. It shifts sublime!

Shortcomings:
- weight, but only if you're seriously tracking it. Hard street driving presents no problems as the handling is so much more refined (that'll start a fight ), and even tracking the car in anything of a less than 10/10ths the weight is no issue, IMHO. And street road irregularities ...ha! 1K better than the T-bar cars.

- suspension! Yes. That and it's OE ride height. Why Porsche loaded this car with monroe dampers that quit working so soon is beyond me. But replace with Bilstein HDs or better + springs, align and cb, and the car handles amazing. Try one and you'll be a believer.

Edward

[randywebb]

Interesting... I'll keep thinking about it.

I'd get a targa for the reasons nostatic lists above... or a Cayman...

[Jack Olsen]

I'm surprised it took until the second page to get to the weight issue. Isn't it the heaviest 911 of all time? On top of that, there's the post-1995 OBDII ECU, with the SAI/CEL problem, the too-soft stock suspension and US ride height. Other guys have already nailed all that on the head.

All that said, if I got a second 911, it would be a black 993 C2S coupe.

[Leland Pate]

I'll weigh in here too.
I've had mine for over a year now and the thrill hasn't diminished a bit.

If I had to list two downsides of 993 ownership I'd have to say:
Rear tire replacement -I'm only about 9 months into my rears and they are comming up for replacement.
And overall maintenance cost- 993's are like almost every other Porsche some parts are relatively inexpensive and others are just ridiculous.

For those that say the 993 is too cushy or posh, you can easily solve this problem with a few factory RS goodies, a chip, and a close ratio gearbox. Man it completely changes the characteristics of the vehicle.

I think the early '95's are one of the easiest 993's to own since they lack the OBD II problems. If you can find one w/o the immobilizer you may save yourself a lot of hassles if that computer goes tits up.

The 10 hp can easily be made up with a plug and play chip. I just wish they made a wide body in '95. The basket handle is ugly though... mine'll be comming off sometime soon.

The bottom line for me is that the 993 is the closest I've ever come to actually owning the perfect car. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd probably go buy another 993... ...but one that has hair dryers installed.

...you just can't go wrong with a 993.

[FrayAdjacent911]

The biggest shortcoming:


I don't have one.

[Chuck Grieb]

Isn't it the heaviest 911 of all time?

I think the 997 is finally heavier, though the later 996s might have gotten past the 993.
I know the 1999 996 was supposed to be 2910, lighter than the 993 and 964.

[edward993]

Originally posted by Jack Olsen
I'm surprised it took until the second page to get to the weight issue. Isn't it the heaviest 911 of all time? On top of that, there's the post-1995 OBDII ECU, with the SAI/CEL problem, the too-soft stock suspension and US ride height. Other guys have already nailed all that on the head.

All that said, if I got a second 911, it would be a black 993 C2S coupe.

Hi Jack,

Yeah, it's certainly heavier than every 911 before it, but the suspension is so well sorted out (the LSA rear end is that good, IMHO) that it masks its weight. While you'll never undo physics, you'd think you were driving a lighter car, once you address the suspension shortcomings, of course. Sure "throwing" it into corners is different from, say, my SC. But once you know how she behaves, it's a true delight to toss intor turns. And then the reward of driving home after a good weekend at the track in absolute comfort. It's not hyperbole but the more I drive it --canyon, street, or track (the latter now past tense)-- the more I'm reminded how truly great this car it is.

On the CEL from the SAI ports, well "lots" are reporting issues, but who know what the "real" numbers are. And FWIW, there are a few good success stories on fixes on the RL board. Or just buy the 95 and save yorself the potential trouble.

Edward

[MuffinMan]

I've driven a bunch of 993's on the track, but I only pushed two of them very hard. One had the Bilstein PSS9 system and stock bushings, and the other one had the H&R (I believe) setup & stock bushings. Both were grand up to about 8/10ths, but once pushed to 9 or 10/10ths I found them very twitchy. Both were setup by different "expert" shops in our region to deal with setting the kinematic toe and had track alignments, but pushing the car very hard was disconcerting. The unpredictability almost sent me into the wall at the Glen, as the car simply stopped turning in with sudden and unexpected understeer. I did an emergency lift & steering correction to keep the car on track and all ended well, but not without a big old spike in my heart rate. In fact, I think I have that on video...I'll see if I can find it for entertainment value.

[mshriner]

All cars have shortcomings. The 73....well it's sepia brown and the 993.....it's my wife's and she won't let me track it! Cool wife to have bought it in the first place though.

Matt

[MuffinMan]

For the record, please don't take my previous post as a bash on 993's. I absolutely love 993's . I believe Tyson posted in a thread awhile back the mods needed to run a 993 at 10/10ths on the track without drama (switching to monoballs, etc). A couple of years ago, I was at the track driving a friend's '95 993 with a Bilstein PSS9 suspension & MPSCs, but was otherwise stock. This video clip is from Watkins Glen and starts out with me being passed by a wigged-out 951 under power on the front straight. I make my way to the carousel, where I experience sudden, unexpected understeer in the middle of the turn. Instead of tracking out nicely, the car screamed toward the armco at triple digit speeds, and simply would not turn. I had another very experienced driver with me, and the unpredictable nature of it caught us both off guard. I was forced to make drastic corrections (lift & countersteer) to keep the car on the track avoid balling it up, but it clearly made me step back down to 8/10ths.

While much more dramatic in person, here is the clip for a bit of entertainment.