TBitz efi users: Update + & - comments

911 tweaks · 05-31-2006, 02:26 PM

Could any and all users of the efi kit offered by tony bitz please offer comments regarding: flexibility of system; durability of megasquirt; running 1 or 2 sparkplug; general & specific comments relative to your specific configuration; things kit could/should include; engine mods should do in addition to running efi kit; measurable performance +/- as a result...

911 tweaks · 06-01-2006, 04:15 AM

are these questions too early to answer...too few users of this efi kit to date? I am trying to figure a cost/benefit value for this kit vs. the other efi kits. Engine has bad fuel dist & I anticipate engine mods in the future...not race wild mods.

1fastredsc · 06-01-2006, 04:43 AM

You may want to broaden your question criteria to anybody with megasquirt because some have built there's from scratch.

76911S · 06-01-2006, 05:35 AM

Not sure how much this will help but, I have just finished an install of one of Tony’s kits and the pieces are good overall. The install was relatively easy and straight forward. The only problems I have had is the system does not work with a Perma Tune CD box and Tony thought that it would (lot’s of trouble shooting over that one) and my lack of knowledge about tuning. Tony is very help full and ready to answer questions via e-mail or telephone. He worked with me extensively on the trouble I was having before we discovered the Perma Tune issue. You can check out http://www.msefi.com/ . There is loads of info there.

al lkosmal · 06-01-2006, 06:28 AM

Tony provides a very thorough, well thought out kit for converting CIS to EFI. I purchased one and heve been very happy with the quality of the components and the quality of the documentation that that Tony provides. I recommend him and his kit. I have modified the conversion by using a 3.2 EFI intake on my newly built 2.7, which, of course has added some complexity. Also I am using an MSD 6A unit. So I have many new things to run-in and debug. It took me a while to get a good tach signal and MAP reading, which is essential. Also, I had to track down and fix some power/ground wiring issues that were causing ECU resets. Tony helped me identify and debug these issues. I now have it running pretty well and am in the process of "tuning", using the various tuning and analysis tools available on the website 76911S listed above. Megasquirt is very flexible and I suggest that you read and learn as much as you can. That information, combined with Tony's kit, knowledge and willingness to help, after the sale provide a fairly foolproof and cost effective way to upgrade to EFI.

911 tweaks · 06-01-2006, 07:39 AM

thx for the responses guys!! You all are right about my posting being somewhat vague, however, I guess I am trying to do a very difficult thing of predicting where the engine mods will go in the future to try to minimize the 2 or 3 or 4 system upgrades down the line...how does the saying go, I wish I knew now what I didnt know then aka Bob Sieger. The plan as of now is maybe increase displacement to 3.2, 3.4 or maybe 3.6. This really depends on the condition of the 'previousley owned' doner engine I have for this guys car resto project. maybe for now I should try to rebuild the fuel dist, install engine and see what I got.

OR, is there a 'summary' sheet of ALL the items one could check out before installing an engine to only find out you may have a sick engine? Doner has been sitting in my shop for 4 yrs and I am the type that tries to do things 1x (which seldom happens) which is a good initial objective I hpe...

Any suggestions other than plowing through ALL 9 WORKSHOP manuals to see where I am at. Engine is a stk 81' 3.0 W/O a fuel dist which got me going down this road of maybe installing the efi to save my guy $; save time; good idea as anticipation of future mods...or maybe the doner has a significant internal breakdown, thus, since I hypothetically have the efi kit which is good to 300hp, can handle fairly overlapping cams, some twin plug set ups, maybe throw in the ford coil packs since 12 wire dists are big $$$...any way I think you guys know where I am coming from and probably will wind up going later if not sooner.

But for now, what is the reasonable approach to persue. Thanks alot to all of you that know way more than me on this stuff...maybe you have been here once or twice before.
Best! Bob

rfuerst911sc · 06-01-2006, 01:21 PM

I have a Megasquirt ECU and ITB's so a little different animal but the Megasquirt can be a little fussy but once you have that out of the way it's a good unit. Be prepared for potential pulling your hair out stuff but it can all be worked thru.

911 tweaks · 06-01-2006, 04:45 PM

rfuerst911sc- Thanks for your reply. Can you tell me how you decided to install the efi. Is it bitz's kit? What are your engine specs? Is this set up a stepping stone twds what future set up for your engine? Anything you would of done diferently than what you have now? Do you have any before & after performance figures? Thx for your help!

rfuerst911sc · 06-01-2006, 05:07 PM

911 tweeks my setup is not from Tbitz. My engine is a stock 3.0. I have no plans for engine mods at this time as my motor is sound but I have the flexibilty in the future to tune for larger displacement and/or hotter cams. The only thing I would have done different is to get much smarter on how to tune before I pulled the trigger on the install.

mb911 · mb911's Garage

I love my kiyt it works well and tony is very helpful

911Mac · 06-01-2006, 08:25 PM

I converted to Megasquirt EFI using one of Tony's kits a little over three years ago. I've probably put 40 to 45K miles on the car since it was converted. The car runs great and gets better fuel mileage.
Tony is extremely knowledgeable and helpful if you run into any problems. He provides a base config that will get your car running, something the guys putting together their own components don't have. Coming up with a decent base config is not trivial. With the kit you also get a set of components that all work well together. If you try to piece things together yourself, you may end up with some parts that just aren't suited to the job. Everything has to be working correctly to get your car running well.
If you decide to upgrade your engine, the Megasquirt can still handle the higher HP demands. I believe the kit is good up to 300 HP and all that would be required to go above that are higher capacity injectors and/or increasing the fuel pressure.
My only recommendation is that if you decide to go the Megasquirt route, you consider upgrading to a wideband O2 sensor.

-Mac

911 tweaks · 06-02-2006, 02:39 AM

Thanks Ben & Mac- Thanks Mac for your specific inputs. By using a 'wideband O2' do I need to get a more expensive kit from Tony? (I'll check his site to verify) Or, are you suggesting this to allow future and/or immediate tune-ability? Did you do any add'l 'tweeks' to your engine while you were doing the efi kit? Any issues with dirt & s^%t getting into/aroung the pop-off valve?(I presume you went with the clean look air box?)

Ben- What engine set up are you running? stk? little or many tweeks?

What about ignition? stk bosch? msd6a? someone mentioned a 'jaguar 12 plug dist i.e. BURN-BROS? crank fire?

**Just a note- How this thread started, the doner engine is missing its fuel dist, THUS, what should I seriousley consider to do now to get-r-runnin WITH the future in mind for upgrades IF the doner has lo compression...is worn out...IF I need to start replacing p/c...it has always been my rule of thump to make it 'better' than stk by adding reliable & higher performance parts since you are replacing them anyway!

Thanks Guys! I believe this induction & ignition plan is starting to come together!

juicersr · juicersr's Garage

I have to say that without a doubt, of all the things i have done to my 200,000 plus mile sc, Tony's kit was that best mod ever. As the CIS system has aged, i could never quite get it right, despite $$, and it was frustating because i knew it was strangling that incredible 3.0 engine. After the kit, it was simply a new car. Starts immediately, revs crisply with nary a stumble all the way to the limit... and with a kn filter going straight to the intakes, the sound is great too. As i am collecting parts for turboing after rebuild, the programming flexibilty is icing on the cake. If you want to see how your flat-six really is supposed to run, get it.

911 tweaks · 06-02-2006, 05:00 AM

Really Juicersr!! That impressive?? What did you specifically do i.e. parts to I presume a stk 3.0 cis engine? What have you also done and/or you are preparing to do now that you have the bitz efi? Anything I should also plan on doing? **Please read above your 1st response as to my current resto state i.e. I have doner stk 3.0 cis W/O the fuel dist of which all has been sitting inmy shop waiting for my guy to pull the final pin and say to me, build-her! I am trying to anticipate the future with possibly (hope not) worn out or broken something on the doner...if so and I start replacing stuff i.e. p/c, heads re-done, maybe cams...should I go with this efi? maybe add in the twm stacks for better anticipation of maybe it will only be my guy(customer) wants me to bump up performance. Thanks again to all since I know this is the totally ongoing frame of mind for those into their rides. Just trying to make smart decisions so the $$ can go as far as possible...

juicersr · juicersr's Garage

The beauty of Tony's kit is that 'it's all there' It's completely a bolt on system, that you could easily put on in a weekend. While my engine is stock, save SSI's, if you have any mods like higher compression, MSD, different cam, etc, you can plug you laptop into the megasquirt box that runs it, and either play with it yourself to optimize things like injector enrichment, etc, or you can download and send your engine's running info and Tony will help y0ou get it right. He's a great and very patient guy. Like the other guy said, the system as is is capable of handling up to 300hp, and to go higher (turbo), u just need to change fuel pressure, small stuff. Life is too short to f$$$ with a worn out CIS or not enjoy the full potential that amazing engine. Rebuild your engine how you like, keep the stock airbox and plug in the EFI. u won't regret it.

GBStu · 06-02-2006, 08:37 AM

I'm also intersted in the tbitz package.......does anyone have before and after dyno figures?

Thanks,

Stu

911 tweaks · 06-02-2006, 08:41 AM

I think I am sold mr. juicersr! Any last comments before I pitch it to my customer and di my best for him to go for it? I may even put one on my own 911 if it works out this well. Do you have any pictures before and or after the install? Thanks again for your opinion. Everyone I talk to about this kit praises it highly!!

juicersr · juicersr's Garage

I don't have dyno figures, but as i owned the car for 8 years before intalling tbiz, i could only max out at the high end of 120-130. It definately feels faster than it ever did, and After EFI, she pulls strong all the way to 125, and i am maxing out at over 130 (fastest is 132 by GPS... and that is with turbo body work) I'll see if i can find pix, but go to tony's site... plenty there plus dyno graph i think

911Mac · 06-02-2006, 05:20 PM

911 Tweeks,

My engine is stock although some SSIs and one of mb911's mufflers would be interesting. I've also toyed with the idea of going the low boost turbo route. The darned engine is running so well, I kind of hate to mess with it.

The nice thing about the wide band O2 is that you set the ECU target AFR wherever you want it, our cars seem to run better with the AFR a little richer than 14.7 to 1. A narrow band O2 sensor can really only tell you if you're higher or lower than 14.7 to 1, both above and below that point it's not very accurate. The wide band O2 sensor is much more accurate, you can tell how rich or lean the engine is running. I also opted for one with a continuous display so I can tell what the AFR is while I'm driving. Kind of a peace-of-mind thing.

Tony's kit uses your existing ignition, but there are options that will let you control ignition with the Megasquirt ECU. Sounds like you need to talk with Tony and flesh out the details of what you're looking for.

-Mac

Vipergrün · 06-02-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911Mac

The nice thing about the wide band O2 is that you set the ECU target AFR wherever you want it, our cars seem to run better with the AFR a little richer than 14.7 to 1. A narrow band O2 sensor can really only tell you if you're higher or lower than 14.7 to 1, both above and below that point it's not very accurate. The wide band O2 sensor is much more accurate, you can tell how rich or lean the engine is running. I also opted for one with a continuous display so I can tell what the AFR is while I'm driving. Kind of a peace-of-mind thing.

....

The other thing to consider is using an LM-1 or PLX Devices O2 contrioller, which you can connect to the Megsquirt ECU. This will allow you to use the "autotune" feature of the MS software. It's a small investment of about $300 bucks, but well worth it. I have the PLX Devices unit and it has an LED readout of the A/F ratio.