EVIL ENGINE goes Twin Turbo - Your Chance to Design the 930tt Exhaust System

[Lukesportsman]

I often have second guessed this decision, but I did it for weight bias. Yes, it will cause some issues adjusting the valves for sure. It does a few things well like keeping the plumbing in and out as short as possible. It will certainly cause some issues too in that in the confined space the plumbing will get tight.

Mike, mine are from a OEM Euro spec engine made by Perkins. They are compressor .51 turbine .50 similar in spec, but not near as suitable for custom app's. My biggest concern is not necessarily the boost side but the exhaust flow potential in our application. Garrett suggest 1.4l to 2.0l so I guess my worry is to naught.

[RarlyL8]

Whatareya waitin' on? Ship those suckers!

[mb911]

Originally posted by Lukesportsman
Midlife,

I'd like to see your GT's. Mine had interesting flanges, but Ben was able to solve the challenge. Not your average $15 flanges though How were you thinking about mounting yours?

The driver side is showing some near interferences at the actuator for the wastegate. It doesn't touch but close to valve cover.

The flange on the HE is closer than my liking to the valve cover than I would have thought or liked. Another 1/2" would go a long way to reduce heat. Let me know what you think when you get them Brian.

glad they worked out for you

[Lukesportsman]

Yes Ben, as your reputation has proven.....good job. Flipped HE's are hardly detectable.

Brian, will anyone be there to sign for them at the address you provided? They'll go out Monday.

[RarlyL8]

Luke - you can send the package to my work address, it may save you a few bucks going business to business by UPS or FedX. I will e-mail you that address.

Ben - got your package on Wednesday, very cool stuff!

I received a full set of tins from Al Kosmal here on the board. These things were in great shape! An added bonus - NO OILY MESS. Thank you so much AL, you don't know how much it helps to get parts that aren't so caked in crap that you can't hardly tell whet they're supposed to be.

Now for the bad news. Looks like there is no way these turbos will fit in my chassis on the Monster exchangers without modification. Stephen told me so but I had to try. No biggie; time to fire up the chop saw!
Here is the telling picture with Al's tin mounted up front. You can clearly see that the turbos peak over the top.

[mb911]

brian I was going to ask you if you got it.. Sorry I have not followed up I have been very busy trying to finish my engine project and back in the car running so I can move onto the next engine sitting in the shop..

[Jk369]

Brian,

Call me crazy but of the pictures I have seen I think the exaust outlets face each other not the air inlet. I did not search to confirm.

Jeff

[RarlyL8]

Jeff - that's why we're doing this, to get ideas.

My fuel system is CIS which has a single air inlet into a single turbo (stock application). Going to twin turbos requires twin inlets which can be avoided or minimized by pointing the turbo inlets toward one another.

These heat exchangers were originally engineered for iA's "Monster" many years ago. Monster had EFI so I do not know why the inlets faced each other in that application. I'm sure there was a good reason for it.

Either way the exhaust system is going to be cramped. All ideas welcome!

[Lukesportsman]

Jeff,

I assume your refering to both the 935's or even the Monster. Brian is attmepting to reconfig. to run with a more traditional exaust exit with a street bumper. Brian's car is a slick street ride and not a track monster with big cut outs. I think in a earlier post he had them mounted in tradtional orientation also.

[Jk369]

Ahah... now I understand the thinking.

Given the current confg. exaust may be able to be handled with an after market oval dual inlet dual outlet muffler (IE Flowmaster). The air intake can be "t"ed together and brought into the front of the driver side fender. (not the best idea) The presure side can be also brought forward and up on ether side if an intercooler is to be used with dual input single out or also "t"ed for a single input. Schedule 5 alum. pipe can be used to fab the components. It is avalible in 1/2 increments above 1 1/2 dia. I am thinking 2 1/2 would be suficent with minimal presure drop. I could if you would like to try to do the calculation (it has been a long time) based on some mesurments and asumptions.

I hope to do this in my near future too.

[RarlyL8]

Intercooler will be dual-in and single-out to stock throttle body.
Any and all calculations, estimations, and exaggerations welcome!

Luke, I received your exchangers today. VERY nice! I had no idea stock 993tt exchangers were so compact. I'll do my best to get them mounted this weekend.

I had the chance to unpack them tonight after getting the kids off to bed. Thanks to you and others who wished my wife a speedy recovery from kidney stone surgery. The stones apparently did some damage while moving around causing an infection to set in. All is being treated and we hope to bring her home from the hospital tomorrow. She may not be so happy when my kids teacher tells her that out of uniform day doesn't mean I can send the kids to school in their PJs.

[Lukesportsman]

Hey Brian, no rush....take care of her for both of your sakes 1st. Then as time permits, play with the HE's. I'm putting attention to the 3.0 and trying to get that swap going with a little more fever. The 3.X TT is a spring/summer project so I'm just collecting parts and ideas. I'm sadly not waiting on these to finish her up

Funny how few 993TT guys come over here from Rennlist or wherever. I guess many of them don't fall under shadetree engineers/mechanics as they tend to go the "tuner" route on modifications.

[RarlyL8]

The missus was released today so things are looking up. Now if I can only find the dog who has been hiding in those huge laundry piles ........

Thanks for giving me some extra time - I'm anxious to get those dudes on and see how they look, but I am stretched pretty thin right now.

Rennlist? Funny you should mention that. I am not as well received over there as here on Pelican. A thread such as this one would be ripped to shreads. Doing anything on a budget is pretty much anti-Porsche and definitely anti-tuner.

[TurboBert]

Brian,
You’re such a misunderstood guy. I reckon you'll need to be converting soon to EFI to make amends.

[Lukesportsman]

Though Geoffery is a wealth of knowledge and very helpful. I've been shut down over there also for some of my non traditional ideas. But if I have a hardcore turbo question I can usually get an "opinion" even if its not fully constructive

[RarlyL8]

I don't think I've ever asked a question on Rennlist. Pelican has a 911 brain base that is second to none. Members here are less likely to have an ulterior motive behind the assistance they give.

What is more important, concerning the EFI thread, is what has not been said. You will never hear mension of what the cost is for tuner installed EFI. I know what it is and it is staggering. It is considered by some to be bragging rights to ship your car to a tuner. Yes, if I were wealthy and had tens of thousands of dollars to throw around I might do something like that, who knows. Until that day I will continue to make what I have work as good as it can.

[RarlyL8]

Progress takes small steps in my world but it does crawl ever forward.

I received the final installment of engine tin pieces that will complete the package. The heat air ducts came from Jordi here on the board. They are in good shape as advertised and just need paint. It's been in the 40's lately so I'll have to wait a week or so for a 60* day to shoot some paint on these bad boys.




I also took 15 minutes of the SuperBowl halftime to pull the Monster exchangers off, re-clock the turbos, and mount Luke's 993tt exchangers and my K16 turbos (it is amazing how fast you can do this stuff when you don't have gaskets or torque specs to contend with).

Luke, these exchangers are just great. The look is awsome!!
They are compact, light weight, and put the turbos at the rear of the engine away from most of the oil lines. The only problem I found is that the driver's side exchanger flange actually touches the lower valve cover. You will have to grind down a fin on that cover, no biggie.
I do not know what the impact will be when you add your spacers. They might make things a little more tight.
I will take pictures from any angle you wish and can manipulate things as well, just let me know.

[Lukesportsman]

How about a view from the side. The oil line issues that you've brought up will be an issue that I'll face since my only working example in the garage is the 72' and unlikely I'll buy another 72' to place the turbo. No, I'm not over the longhood but just don't think they look as good with a big wing on the back for the IC.

I'm also concerned with some hard part points of contact. What is the overall width and will this fit without mod'n the sheet metal in the engine compartment? What kind of clearance to the back side of the tire will there be? I haven't solidified where I would want the air intake charge to come from. I've looked over Mark Hargetts photos many 'a' times and I can't determine this in a regular trailing arm car without spacers and maximum backspace. I figure my current example is worst case with a 10" in a SC flare, but I still can't do more than guesstimate. And guesstimating is only one step from ass.u.me'ng.

What are your thoughts on this Brian? or others for that matter?

I wish we had some 993TT involvement here, I'd like to know if everyone's driver side is nearly that close. On my covers, it just clears on the 3.0 but I'm concerned with radiant heat on the gaskets and additional warping. If I re-flange these to a different non KKK design, I'll certainly clearance this substantially. I would have thought right/left would have been more symmetrical in angulation of discharge. Obviously aesthetics weren't a concern for the OEM.

[RarlyL8]

It looks to me like they designed everything around the tubine outlet.
Both driver and passenger sides look symetrical if you stare at the turbine outlet.

My assumption, because I have never seen one, is that the 993tt lower valve cover does not have the webbing of a 930 valve cover. I have heard it said by tuners that the 993tt case is not as good a platform for aftermarket turbocharging as the 993 N/A case. I have no idea why that could be so but I have read it a few times. The cases must be different somehow.

In my opinion all you need to do is shave some metal off of both the offending flange and the webbing. You also might consider the metal turbo housing covers that Mark Hargett used in his application.

I'll get you some side shots and a bottom shot. Heat is going to require some fabrication.

If you do not use a '72 tank configuration there will be some issues. Mark H used the '72 tank config in his car. The lower "S" hose will be the concern. Again, a heat shield will likely be manditory.

I was really surprised at how far back the turbos are placed. The driver's side unit is only maybe 3-4" back from the stock single turbo location on a 930.

FYI - I am looking for a stock 930 bumper with fender extension. A complete set up that needs some TLC (read cheap). Keep your ears open if you don't mind. When the Evil Engine goes in the car I wanna show those babies off. The stock bumper has a valance that can be cut down pretty good.

[Lukesportsman]

I will keep an eye open when over at Farmer's picking up the GT2 wing in a few weeks and see what he has laying around there in Indy.