David Defending himself
 

No, not defeding myself, I was just adding objectivity to this:

We went out on track with the goal of shooting a video of each other meaning that we were not trying to outrun each other, but instead to stay close to each other.

I had to slow down on every lap to stay in the video. A lot of it had to do with his brakes, and the Vette just takes off over 100.

Can be seen if you see the actual video when I felt we had enough video and disappeared completely in the video at the end of 1/2 a lap.

So, just pointing out that it is not a comparision at all. Unless the comparision was "how close can two drivers stay to each other at ridiculous speeds" and Craig and I get top honors for having for being so in synch with each other that we did what would scare the hell out of most drivers (which is why you don't see anyone else trying to keep up with us).

Yup, just adding objectivity. There were two perspectives on this, and without mine, you are getting only one perspective which does no one any good.

-David

Defining ourselves
 

Now you speak the greatest truth. If I defined myself by what I drove, I would not by the Vette as I had to deal with so many friends attacking me for doing so. They all shut up after I took them for rides, but you know the Vette has an "image" associated with it. If you ask the people at the track, they will tell you I am a Porsche person driving in a Corvette, as I don't fit the profile of the typical high horsepower owner.

I bought it because it put the greatest smile on my face. That was it. Drove everything, and remember it was my first year driving. So, for me not knowing if I was going to like it, spending 80K to find out instead of 130K made it much easier, and I wanted the safety and reliability of a new car.

You speak the most important truth here that if any of us define ourselves by what we drive, we are screwed. Lose ourselves.

-David

Re: yes, I read the whole thing.
 

I have to disagree with Astroglider-Guy (sorry-had to:)). I think Dave and Craig have equally large "peencees" just for being out there. My experiences with Corvette owners have all been positive. They just want to get out there and rip like we do. Oddly enough, I bought my 964 from a Vette guy. He was going back to that stable by selling hgis 911 to me, but you could tell he hated to see the 911 go.

Lets cut Dave some slack. He seems like a good guy who defended his ride-just like we do all the time. I welcome his participation.

Bottom line-we're all car guys.

Steering and suspension
 

1. You did not drive a new Z06 as there are none with automatics. It is not an option. I have driven the last gen. automatic and it was terrible. Such a delay it was ridiculous. Current automatic is supposed to be good, but it is on the regular Vette. None in a Z06.

2. The feedback thing you speak of is very real in the old Vette (which you drove if it had an automatic), and is also true in the C6 current regular Vette, and less of an issue with the Z06.

It is very weird. Even though the Z06 is significantly better than the regular Vette (I have both..C6 and Z06), it still has this spooky lack of road feel but it is a mental issue. You THINK you can't feel the road, but you go into turn 1 at 160 without an issue at all (very few cars can do that). You have to bump up your own sensitivity to drive it.

It just takes time to learn to "trust" it. It is the oddest thing I have run into. Requires faith as it DOES work but doesn't feel like it does. Porsche's road feel through the streering wheel is definitely much more comforting without question. But you can't argue with lap times, and that shows that it works.

My car Suspension?

1. Suspension is completely stock (which I need to change...even though I am doing great lap times, requires work as the shocks do not rebound well with the tighter body (roll cage) and Hoosiers).

2. Every Corvette comes standard with bolts to lower 1 inch stock. Just had that done. No big deal, but seems to definitely give me a slight edge. You can go further with it, but requires mods, and I wanted to leave it stock for warranty purposes.

3. Hoosiers R6. They definitely help, but I have to say that the Run Flats on this car are surprisingly good (1.01G skidpad). Just wear out in one and a half days, while the hoosiers last 10 track days. They improve handling a bit also. Less understeer.

Hope this helps. Yes, it is spooky at first, but as you said, amazing performance. Weird.

-David

Re: yes, I read the whole thing.
 

Considering your last statement you are the one with the issue obviously. I did not attack anyone here.

Just show up at the track instead. I drive a BMW and Corvette. I don't care what car I drive. Was just pointing out the truth. I know you want to see me as some Corvette guy, but sorry. Im not any guy.

It was a run where our goal was to stay as close as possible and I was slowing down to do so, as would be expected when comparing a new Corvette with an older Porsche. But I AM NOT THE ONE THAT WAS MAKING THE COMPARISON so get off my case.

I was just pointing out the facts is all.

As far as weencee stuff do you really have to make such personal attacks? Besides, you don't want to go down that road, as you never want to underestimate anyone my friend.

It is always the one that brings that stuff up that has the issue you know, so remember that for the future.

-David

Re: Steering and suspension
 

-David [/B][/QUOTE]

Dave stop the corvette madness. You are not giving us any usefull info. If you were more subjective maybe I could learn something. All I hear are "vettes rule" undertones in everything you say. You said you went out JUST to shoot some video bullSh#t all you have done is compare and talk big chief crap about Vettes.And how you had to hold back for the Porsche.

leaf springs = pure racecar

You're right.I'm off.
 

Craig knows me and knows I am not into talking trash, just interested in what is best for both of us as drivers. I want him to fix his brakes so he can run faster. We both are equal drivers.

I'm not sure if talking trash does anything but make us look like a bunch of girls though.

When I hear the Corvette guys on Corvette forums talking trash, I chime in and remind them to run against a GT2 before saying what they are. Everyone picks out a situation, turns it into a general conclusion and walks away happy with their conclusion.

I was just pointing out that we were there to have fun, and any comparision was purely subjective is all.

You want me off, I'm off! No issues here.

I will always respect fast drivers like Craig, so the more of you that show up at the track instead of "talK" on these forums, the more fun for everyone especially Craig and I!

-David

Re: Re: yes, I read the whole thing.
 

none of this is personal it is all in good fun and spirited debate. Yes I do have issues, but I am aware of mine........

responding to Craig asking me when
 

when my next track day is.

You see, I actually GO to the track. You talk. Armchair drivers are so fascinating. Craig drives first, talks later.

That's enough. You guys are amazing! To see this thing degrade from a completely objective discussion to personal attacks is pathetic.

I guess the BEST WAY TO SAY GOODBYE TO THE PERSONAL ATTACKS IS TO LEAFVE YOU WITH ONE PHRASE:

I'll just refer to what Randy Blaylock said near the top of the forum, as he is the previous owner of the Porsche:

"David after reading your response I completely agree with you".

I know Craig, and he is not into personal attacks, so you enjoy yourself but I doubt he feels comfortable with you or your lack of class. I thought Porsche owners had class?


I'm off! PLEASE JUST COME TO THE TRACK INSTEAD! Talk is cheap.

-David

Re: responding to Craig asking me when
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DM-Z06
[so you enjoy yourself but I doubt he feels comfortable with yoB]when my next track day is.



-David [/B][That's enough. You guys are amazing! To see this thing degrade from a completely objective discussion to personal attacks is pathetic.
/QUOTE]



Dave it was never Objective, and yes we or I... have digressed. I

think it is great you both enjoy the track. I wish no ill will on you

or your peencee. I admire your confidence although wisdom helps offset that.more of us need it. I

could not drive either of the above mentioned cars half as well as

you.I had fun rustling your feathers and I appreciate you playing

a long almost on que.

Who said we wanted you off? I never did. However, you must admit you would not have joined our little group had you not found out that some Porsche guys were getting it all wrong with respect to your car's speed and handling prowess.

You shouldn't leave. Stick around.

By the way, I love the track. I wish I could attend more track days but my wife would have a problem with more than a few times a year for me.

David -

I was curious...did you experience this, and what is your take on it:

"If the Z06 encountered ay kind of lump in the pavement as it was exiting a corner, the result was a nearly instantaneous outward snap of the tail. For our first few laps, we wisely set the Delphi stability-control system to its competition mode. That allows some sliding, but can save the driver. Had we shut it off, we probably would have stuffed it. Not yet aware of the sensitivity to bumps and the throttle, we were saved by the system numerous times."

When I was behind you, I saw no instability at all. Not that I could notice it anyway. When I drove behind you in your C6 awhile back , it moved all over.

Re: responding to Craig asking me when
 

Dang!!!! Just got back to this thread after my post regarding reliability of Chevy's and I read this. :(

Well, hopefully your are still out there David as I had a few things to say to you as a follow-up...

I apologize if my comments regarding the reliabilty issue of Chevy's and my concern regarding ownership came off as an attack. I certainly did not mean it to be and in hindsight, I should have kept them to myself. Maybe it's a little pride, maybe a little jealousy, or the fact that space and cash limit me to one sportscar and cycle... Or all of them together that led me to become a little defensive.

Secondly, I meant to reply to your reply that I am very impressed with your candor and willingness to put up with some ribbing from us Porsche owners. I hope that you'll continue to post here with interesting info about your Z06. Many of us are very impressed with the car and love hearing stories about them.

Lastly: The reality is that if I had the room (and may with a new garage in the future) I would consider buying a Z06 slightly used... Although there is something about the new Lotus that entices me as well :D

Cheers [img]
http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/wat6.gif[/img]

Eric

I was just having fun, I thought my beast rendition was rather

good and I hope too, eventually experience, a track first hand

with my Porsche. For now I will live thru others recounts of good

times at the track in there Porsche or vette or go-cart. My time

will come, right now I sit back and learn. If you have any

questions about what it looks like from 7,ooo feet hanging from a

oversized kite let me know.{aka Hang gliding} This sport takes

most of my free-time. I went to Neslon's Ledges track the other

day and will be at the next fun run day, trying to keep it off the

guard wall tires. The guy rubbed me the wrong way so I had a

little fun with him. I hope everyone is having fun and keeping on

all four wheels or two wheels depending on what you

drive.....well hell three wheels also forgot about trikes....trying to

be politically correct. Again it is good, just to see people

passionate about something...............

Blah, blah, blah..... Pretty Sad it turned into what
it has---A Meaningless Pissing Match. Craig is
more than capable of defending himself if he sees
fit.

Craig, congrats on your build. Good luck with
the future development of your engine. I think
you will see 445 RWHP once you lean it out a
bit between 4.5-6k RPM.

Also, good luck with whatever you are experiencing
with your brakes. I was unable to determine by
reading the post what was not quite right. As you
know, PORSCHE and their reputation for great
brakes are legendary. You'll figure it out, even if
it means going a bit bigger, I'm sure.

On a side note, the track where you were running
seemed a bit tight, and the runoff areas didn't
look very inviting or safe like at a proper track.
Hard to say though from only seeing a video.
Be Safe, and have fun!!!

Cheers,

Bryan

something new to this topic :)
 

My friend at work just got a new Zo6, the following is a story with what happend with my 930 (450+whp) and his Zo6


Ok, so here is the story about the 79 930 VS. 2006 Zo6:

We took off this morning from downtown Chicago. Its was a little cold out and with out heat in the car I had to dress like I was going skiing. But that is a small price to pay. The zo6 driver was from Chicago and knew where to go so I followed him. He didn't wait around as he gunned it on the on ramp to lake shore... "wow that thing is Fast" as I thought while I waited for the turbo to spool. by the time it came on we had to merge and it was too late. As we turned onto a street off of lake shore I made sure that it wasn't going to happen again. As I turned the corner I nailed it in first.. well that lasted about .2 seconds and I could feel the back end to come around. I corrected and everything was fine. It was a friendly reminder from my car saying "Slow down stupid ass and don't try to get cute". I headed the warning...

we took off towards fox river (the closest thing to a curvy road by Chicago, i miss AZ). On the way we messed around a little on I290... nothing stupid. We got out of the city and turn onto a nice secluded road. With out hesitation he stands on the gas petal. I am ready in second gear but I get crap for traction and light up the AVS sports 315's (around 70mph)...recover and shirt into third and go. I don't fall back but I don't gain on him either. "wow he is fast" I think when we slow down. We go through some gentle curves and the 930 doesn't miss a beat. I did fell comfortable with the speed that we were traveling through the corners (around 70), we both have a huge amount of respect (and a big dose of fear in my case) for our cars. Back on the straight "corn roads" we gun it again. This time from first...

He gets me to about 30 mph then I start to make up ground (about 15 yards) to 140mph and he pulls away. Over all in a straight line the two cars were very very very close. I am sure he is faster through the curves. We decided that we were done acting like jackasses on public roads and headed home. (I know it is stupid what we did today, but we did our best to find a straight road with corn on each side)

The Zo6 is one bad ass car to say the least! the two car could not be any different. The 930 is bare bones really only made to do one thing go fast (and make me happy. No heat, no AC, and an interior installed by your truly. The Zo6 is clean and mean from bumper to bumper. The interior is much better than past corvettes that I have seen. Through all this driving he used about a 1/4 tank of gas, the 930 about 2/3 a tank.

Its really hard to compare the two cars, one being bran new and the other 29 years old. They both are great in there own right. As we parked for the last time to take some pictures we smiled at each other knowing how truly lucky we are to own such amazing cars.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160960578.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160960604.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1160960632.jpg

David,

I believe you are correct, it was a C6 that I test drove. I only wish we'd had enough time to learn the "trust" factor. In reality we waited upwards of an hour at a GM demo day for a drive of a couple of laps. BTW the BMW driving experience is far and away a more enjoyable way to test their brand of cars.

As to my fellow Pelicans - shame! David is a guest on our forum and I personally enjoy learning about his car. I may not want a Vette myself but then again I'm not a huge fan of the Viper either. But the man is a guest and a friend of a fellow Pelican. Lets at least welcome him as a fellow driver.

Last winter there were none at the track days, I had to be content chasing 360 and 430 Challange cars around. I am looking foward to seeing some of these Z-06's on the track this winter.



cardsrule - This is the thing, he bought his from a showroom, jumped in and instantly has a fast car. If thats what makes you happy, go for it.

My RX-7 is like your 930, I built it, I did most of the work myself and its a one of a kind. Its also a total sleeper.

I like that there are no gadgets to save me and make me look good when I screw up. When I turn a fast lap in it, its because I have wrestled with the beast and won. This is what I love about my RX-7 and my SC they have to be driven and you have to stay on top of them, it takes a lot more to drive them fast and that makes it 10X more rewarding.

911Teo mentioned this early on in this thread and he is spot on. Thats why I love these older sports cars.

So act like a guest should. dont come to watch a Philadelphia

Eagles game, in Phili wearing a Tampa Bay Buccaneers jersey

singing the "make the Eagles walk the plank and throw them in

Tampa Bay", my little brother tried that during the playoffs and it

did not go over well.

You have to expect a little heckling this is home 911 turf!!!

Again just having fun I hope no one is taking this serious. I love

Pelican and have learned more from this site than anywhere else,

about my 911. I owned {gasp} a Corvette and enjoyed it . Was

not a track type car, infact it had one of the lowest horsepower

ratings ever for a corvette, but I always thought I was Batman

when I drove it ....1975

Stingray.