I need help

[samsnead]

It was a sad day for me last week, I was going around a corner and hit a patch of gravel and spun into a tree(the only one on the street!). The car was a total loss, and now my Insurance company has given me a ridiculous low ball offer on the value. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get fair market value for my vehicle?

Thanks,

Greg

[RickM]

Greg, Sorry to hear about your loss.

I would use current market listings for similar cars and try negotiating. You may want to use your agent as a mediator. After all he/she is there to keep you as a customer.

BTW, this is where an Agreed to Value policy is most helpful.

[Eric-325I]

First of all: Do not agree to anything till your satisfied. They will call you and 'badger' you on the phone. Those calls are recorded: be polite but stand your ground.

Start doing your own research using local, regional, and nationwide ads for similiar cars and document.

From there others will have to chime in. I recently went through this with my daily driver. My insurance company (AAA) was great about the whole process and I recieved what I feel was a great result. Car was totaled and I recieved more than I thought I would if I'd sold it outright.

Good luck and sorry to hear about your loss.

Eric

[samsnead]

Thanks for your help guys, I am dealing with State Farm and was quite suprised to see that they would stoop so low. Obviously these cars are hard to accurately assess, and mine was a turbo look which will make it even harder.

I hope to be back in the saddle again soon.

Greg

[Don Plumley]

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Motion went through this some years ago - if I recall he built a case using the PCA value, Bruce Anderson's valuations in Excellence, and then surveyed completed sales (in addition to classified ads).

Data is your friend. Especially with a Turbo look - I'd search through Pelican and find every Turbo look owner and ask them to send you an email with the price they paid, miles/condition; look through classified listings and ask the seller the same.

The adjuster at State Farm is your friend. Don't piss them off, don't yell, whine or randomly complain. Ask what information they need from you to re-evaluate their offer. Approach it professionally and without emotion. Time is on their side and they know it.

Good Luck.

[Klax]

This happened to someone else with a turbo look a year ago. Do a search. As already mentioned, data is your friend, and to some degree so is the adjuster. Provide adjuster with credible support for cars value.

Good luck.

[cashflyer]

Your profile doesn't show where you're located.

If you're located near Charlotte, speak to Bob Saville at Exclusive Motorsports. He can give you very detailed information about the market value of your car (before the wreck).

[wv-geo]

As they say, you don't know how good your insurance is until you use it.

Sam, first of all, sorry about your loss. Hope you and the tree faired better than your 911.


Now to the serious part. Insurance companies are in business to make money, and how they make money is to pay out less than they take in. I learned this myself the hard way when my personal car was totaled by someone else (A non-Porsche car). If an independent insurance adjuster looked at your car, they sometimes have an incentive ($$$) to get you to accept less money than what you deserve. If your 911 is still in the NADA blue book, they will look up the value and go from there, or they will contact used car lots in your area to get an idea what your car is worth. In my state, WV, the insurance companies have to notify the state which method is used to determine value. What are the specs on your 911 and where (State) do you live?

They have the right to pay you what they think it is worth. It is up to you to convince them that it is worth more. As RickM stated, an Agreed to Value policy is the best way to go with classic and antique autos, or tricked-out rides where the amount of money invested is more than the value. Unfortunately, this is after the fact and will not help you now. But consider this type of coverage on any Porsche you have now or purchase later.

I agree with Eric-325I, do not agree to anything till your satisfied, and do your own research into the value of your 911. Unfortunately, national prices may not help you since values are geographically adjusted. RickM suggestion to use your agent as a mediator might work.

What rights you have and what recourse you have if you are not satisfied is very dependant on which State you live in. If you State has laws favorable to policy holders, your options may be many; if you State doesn't, like WV, your screwed.


To look down the road. When you resolve this and purchase another Porsche, what do you do?
First, find out what your Porsche is worth. Pay the money and get it professionally appraised. What this does is set a base at a point in time for the value of your Porsche at a certain condition. And photograph, photograph, photograph! Pictures ARE worth a thousand words.
Second, have your insurance company write your policy to include the appraisal as the Agreed to Value, and be able to raise that value as your Porsche appreciates.
Third, keep track of the value of your Porsche, and as it raises increase your policy.

Good luck.

[samsnead]

Thanks Guys, I appreciate all the help. I live in the NYC so prices are a bit higher here. I bought the car from Richard Sloan, but it wasnt one of his time warp pieces. I have called all my contacts in the area to find out what I could expect to pay for the car now, I purchased tha car less than a year ago so I have been following what they are going for. The adjustor said that they will not give any additional value for the fabspeed exhaust, pre muffler or SW chip, so I can go put the originals back on.

I guess the main thing is that I was able to walk away from this, but I am still sad to see her go, the car deserved better.

Thanks,

Greg

[Grady Clay]

Greg,

Keep in mind it is your Agent (insurance sales person) who wants your continued business. Your assigned Adjuster is representing the insurance company’s interests but (supposedly) has to operate within the law of your state. Dan is correct; “If an independent insurance adjuster looked at your car, they sometimes have an incentive ($$$) to get you to accept less money than what you deserve.” Some of these can blatantly cheat the policy holder and the insurance company tries to keep “plausible deniability.”

As said above, insurance companies are in business to make a profit and as much as possible. Too often that is at an unknowing policy holder’s expense.



Be very polite but firm. Write everything down. Don’t make it a contest from the get-go but be prepared to have your ducks in a row as if you were to have to go to court. If the subject of lawyers and court comes up, put the insurance company on notice that they will be expected to pay your attorney fees and costs.

Your best argument is to find comparables; as many as you can. The data from PCA, Bruce Anderson in Excellence, PML and your own research is very valuable. You want documentation to be able to say; “Here is my car and here is what other similar cars sold for.” This should be nationwide as our cars are bought and sold trans-continent and internationally.

Insurance companies subscribe to services that clip newspapers, Auto Trader, etc. They try and convince you that these are the standards for “comparable.” Not so. Your recourse is to use Panorama and collectors resources.

Find some live experts; preferably people in the business. The used car sales manager from dealers are good. Interview them first and get their opinion in writing. A little hint that you will be looking for another 911 never hurts.

If the insurance company sends you a check, photocopy the check and send back. They are trying to appeal to your natural instincts of money in your pocket; “Bird in the hand ….” so to speak. In some states that is an illegal ploy.

There is a legal term (Good Faith) that refers to how insurance companies must treat their customers. Many states require treble damages if the insurance company violates the law and act in “Bad Faith.” Your State Insurance Commission should have this stuff online.

Read your policy.


When Karen totaled her Land Cruiser (original owner, original paint, lots of miles), the insurance company (State Farm) tried to low-ball her figuring she was an easy target. They offered $900 for a $6K car. That got my dander up. I found comparable (collector’s) cars for $15-25K, documented Like Kind and Quality and every thing else. We demanded $11,800 and settled on $9800 with us keeping the salvage. Had they not tried to cheat her, they could have saved $4K.

Don’t let them wear you down. You too can play that game but at every discussion demand payment now. You are being injured by their bad Faith delay. This is a settlement negotiation where they want to pay you as little as possible as late as possible. You need to be your own best advocate.

Don’t be afraid to piss them off in the end. They will probably wait the required time and not renew your policy anyway. Be prepared. If they were to try and cancel your policy, contact an attorney.

Best,
Grady

I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.
I did stay in a Holliday Inn Express a few years ago.
G.

[scarceller]

Originally posted by samsnead
It was a sad day for me last week, I was going around a corner and hit a patch of gravel and spun into a tree(the only one on the street!). The car was a total loss, and now my Insurance company has given me a ridiculous low ball offer on the value. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get fair market value for my vehicle?

Thanks,

Greg

If the car is 91 or older the Porsche Club of America (PCA) may be able to help. As a member you are entitled to a free evaluation report on you car.
Here is the link:
http://www.pca.org/members/valuation.html
But only done for 911s that are pre 1991.

I wish you the best.

[samsnead]

Thanks guys, it is the people on sites like this that truly enhance the experience, I appreciate all the input.

Greg

[Dantilla]

There is a local car that is very similar to mine. Silver long-hood, with a 3.2, flares, Quaife, 23/32 T-bars, yada yada, so when it went up for sale recently, I printed out his ad, with pictures, just in case something unfortunate happens to mine. I also printed an email from the seller stating the final price he sold the car for.

I hope I never need it, but good to have.

[HarryD]

Greg:

When I hadmy 912 rear ended, the adjuster was clearly at a loss on how to value my car. I told him I expected to get a fair settlement and them proceeded to give him lots of data for decent cars of the same vintage to help him come to the "right" answer. I believe by taking a calm, pro-active approach, I was able to get what I wanted. By providing good data to the adjuster, I made his job much easier.

As already advised, be patient, firm and reasonable. They should respond in kind and while it may take longer than you want, you will get what you need in return.

Best of luck.

[dfink]

Can you tell them just to replace the car with one that has like options and condition... If they can find for less that meets your conditions more power to them and you get your car replaced. If they can't then they should buy you one at whatever it costs or pay you the same....
{EDIT} If they have trouble finding a wide body tell them that you hate to do it because of poor fuel economy and the troubles with all that heat but you would settle for a turbo if they can't find the wide body you really like.....

[Rich76_911s]

I don't know your situation but you might consider buying the car back from the insurance company. Depending on the condition the parts the car could be worth a significant amount. Don't the turbo look cars have turbo brakes? They are worth a fair amount. All the interior, engine, transmission, fenders, seats, wheels ect. ect. if stuff survived the crash it is pretty valuable from the parts side of it. Just an option. I am about 2 hours away from NYC, if I can help out with anything let me know. The only thing I really know about 911's is how to take them apart!

Cheers
Rich

['78 SC]

Greg,

First of all, let me add my condolences.

It's been quite a while since my last auto insurance settlement, but you may benefit from something a friendly adjuster told me. After all the negotiation is over and the value of the car has been agreed to, then request compensation for sales tax. I actually had an agent thrusting a check at me, but I kept my hands in my pockets and requested the sales tax. He gave me the stink eye, but came back with a check that was 6% higher. Maybe a California thing, but worth a try.

[Crachian]

The adjuster is NOT your friend. Do not confide in him/her. Ins. companies are the devil; the adjuster is doing the devil's bidding. You don't want to be friends with people like that.

You bought the car less than a year ago, so the best indicator of its value is what you paid. I'd start there and begin crawling up by presenting documentation of all the improvements you put into it.

What you want to show is that the car did not depreciate after you bought it.

Right now, you need to get them to commit to a salvage value for your car. They probably will just look it up in a book. The number you'll get now will be low. Later, it will be much higher. You need to lock them into the low number now, so you can buy it back in your final settlement. I would not be surprised if they tell you the salvage value is $2800.

Get the car in your possession if not already.

[randywebb]

best advice yet.

be careful about signing anything.

if they say "we won't pay" for the added exhaust or whatever; you say "please cite the paragraph and section numbers of the policy where it excludes those" and you say it in writing - use Email if possible. Fax is ok too.

it helps if you have an uncle who is an attorney... note that for them if you do.

Good Luck!

and I wouldn't say devil - I'd say Satan...