Top End Estimate - Need a review

[JBO]

Looks reasonable to me. Not sure of your mileage, but if it's under 100k the conventional wisdom on a top end rebuild if all measures out is to reuse the P & C's and NOT re-ring. I would do a 964 cam regrind, which is "only" about another $400. That's what I did. It does start to add up. I also powder coated the fan and engine tin, but if I was doing it again I probably would just high temp paint those things and save that $400. I went overboard and also rebuilt my trans as it was grinding into 1st, and I decided it was a "good idea" to have the engine and trans redone at the same time. If you can afford it it's hard not to get a little carried away. I almost bumped my 3.0 displacement up with bigger P & C's, but I really didn't need them and I couldn't talk myself into the extra $3,500!!

[88911coupe]

I was quoted 8-10k for a basic top end only at a "not to be named" well respected shop here in the Dallas area. In talking to the guy he confirmed Charleskieffer's comment about cleaning...the vast majority of the labor is cleaning things. I can clean stuff pretty cheaply. I'll happily pay for the skilled work to be done by someone else. I am not implying anything with regard to shops, they need to be paid for all the work they do but I can save some money doing the really easy things myself. I also don't break too many things if all I'm doing is cleaning parts!

[KTL]

Sorry, I overlooked the ARP studs and did not realize they were being used- and I must admit I was not aware that the thread cut of the ARP studs is different, despite being the same thread size & pitch. But then the question I have is, the replacement nuts listed are OE Porsche nuts and therefore would result in the same condition as reusing the old nuts, no???

I think the question needs to be asked, what's the use of the car? If a street car, needlessly replacing things like head stud nuts that are still functional and using ARP studs is way overkill. Use old nuts that still have tight hexes and install steel studs on the bottom/exhaust row.

It's very easy to go overboard with "while you're in theres." I've been very guilty of that. A good inspection of the parts can tell you what can be reused. When I did mine, I overkilled it with new valve springs and a cam regrind. If all looks good (upper studs, rocker arms, rocker shafts, fasteners, cross hatching on cylinders......) reuse what you can and put it back together. The deeper you go, the more it costs. These engines are very durable besides the valve guide issues. Fix the main problem (valve guides) and button it back up. To start replacing things just because it seems like a good idea can get very expensive.

By the way a cam regrind can be had for $275 if you contact "camgrinder" John Dougherty.

[Super_Dave_D]

I told him to do it and also have everything bead blasted and powder coated or painted. I figured as that if it was out I wanted it to look new when it went back in. So I guess at the end of the day YES I am going overboard but I tend to do that. Heck bought a set of carpet that turned into a major interior replacement.

KTL - the car is currently street but I have been working on it for 2 years in anticipation of taking to the track for DE's. I will have full photo documentation of the work performed. I think my biggest deal with all of this is not having my baby in the garage for a few weeks.

Anyone want a 88 Carrera with a fresh top-end ,new interior, new brakes (full), New TT rods and on and on and on........hell I am married to it now - might as well keep it

[disfin]

I actually know a guy in J-ville that told me he was starting to shop around for one. Let me know if you end up serious about selling it.

Of course if I were you I wouldn't sell, but everyone's different.

[Super_Dave_D]

Believe it or not the wife told me to go buy a 996 (I have wanted one as a DD) but told me I have to keep the 88 (bummer!!). I guess I am a pretty lucky guy.

[charleskieffner]

super duper dave.............i was sorry about your having to dump bucks in your car. you had my sympathy.


now the gloves are off..................

3.4 p's and c's and the WHOLE ENCHILADA!

super mongo track car! hahahahahaha

buy another red juan!

[charleskieffner]

curious question.............does your wife have a seeeeeesss-ter(sister)? LOL i need want gotta have needa needa gotta have a 996 too!

[Super_Dave_D]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

curious question.............does your wife have a seeeeeesss-ter(sister)? LOL i need want gotta have needa needa gotta have a 996 too!

She sure does and shes 32 and single!! Not quite as hot as my wife but not too far off. Sorry no pictures boys or it will get moved to OT.

[Super_Dave_D]

Well - she went under the knife for a major operation. Heres a few pics I took today during my visit. I miss her so bad but I know she will be awesome when she comes home. The garage is empty and the wife even commented that she will be glad when I get it bad so I'll have something to do. My wrench will provide a photo CD of the entire operation from start to finish. It spretty cool to see a digital cam on the work bench. I will post more is a few weeks. Hopefully a lot prettier ones.

On the lift


Engine (kinda)


Beleive it or not - it ran pretty well but look at this!!!!

[KTL]

How many exhaust system cyl. head studs broke? Let us know what's the verdict on the rocker arms and shafts too. Those shouldn't be overlooked.

Based on the look inside those chain boxes, oil change history is a bit spotty (few and far between) or poor choice of oil. That's a fair amount of oil discoloration in there. Keep in mind those cam & tensioner oil feed lines may need replacing if not already suggested. The old ones may not have leaked before starting the work, but they like to leak upon reinstallation once they've been disturbed.

Before you get too crazy with while you're in there's for appearance, make sure to address the potential clutch issues like Quicksilver said. Clutch fork pivot shaft, fork, release bearing, guide tube and clutch housing & disc should be inspected for condition. It's a worthwhile while you're in there since another engine drop is required if clutch issues come up in the near future.

[craigyirush]

Just curious - what were the symptoms that led to the decision to rebuild?

High oil consumption?

Noise from broken head studs?

And what did your wrench say about your compression and leakdown numbers?

The compression didn't look too bad (though 140 is a bit low).

Will be interested to hear the condition of the rings/bores, etc.

[mkimber]

Subscribed.

[Super_Dave_D]

Amazingly none of the exhaust studs broke but they look real rusty (almost a thinning look) so I am having them all replaced. The clutch components were all upgraded by the PO and look new so my wrench advised not replacing it.

Originally Posted by KTL

How many exhaust system cyl. head studs broke? Let us know what's the verdict on the rocker arms and shafts too. Those shouldn't be overlooked.

Before you get too crazy with while you're in there's for appearance, make sure to address the potential clutch issues like Quicksilver said. Clutch fork pivot shaft, fork, release bearing, guide tube and clutch housing & disc should be inspected for condition. It's a worthwhile while you're in there since another engine drop is required if clutch issues come up in the near future.

[Super_Dave_D]

Extremely high oil consumption was the reason. The car actually ran pretty well even in its condition except to a real slight miss - a couple plugs were fouled. He had't got down to the rings/bores yet. I will let you know.

Originally Posted by craigyirush

Just curious - what were the symptoms that led to the decision to rebuild?

High oil consumption?

Noise from broken head studs?

And what did your wrench say about your compression and leakdown numbers?

The compression didn't look too bad (though 140 is a bit low).

Will be interested to hear the condition of the rings/bores, etc.

[JeremyD]

Wow - I'm guessing you will be replacing ALL the exhaust valves - maybe even a few of the intake too.

Castrol oil?

[mkimber]

David,

What was your "extremely high oil consumption?" I am fearing a top-end is in my near future. I am burning a quart about every 400-500 miles, sometimes less if I am driving the car hard.

[Super_Dave_D]

Sorry to say but you might need to get ready - I was burning a qt every 400 miles. I think 400miles is high. The thing that really set me off was, I attached a camera on the back of my car so I could record my M&K (dorky I know) and on decel it smoked bad so thats what lead me to thsi point.

[rick-l]

What happened to the subscribe link that used to be at the bottom of each thread?

[tfiv]

I see new Ps and Cs in your future