Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[richardlw]

First I'll thank Don for mentioning this site, as I'm sure it will be much more helpful for my 88 BMW 325ic than the bimerforum. With all I'm involved in, especially the Spanish sites I participate in, my businesses, and the car I'm restoring, I won't be on here every day, but I will be checking in.

Second, I appreciate the comments on my oil paper. It started out as a little promise I made on one of my Corvair forums to kill some of the additive and viscosity myths. My goal was to keep it under 10 pages. I think draft 1 was about 16 pages. While it answered the main objectives, there were a lot more things people wanted to see, and, of course, it was read by people with engines that use higher viscosity oils. I had also tried to stay away from mentioning brands, since everyone has their sacred cow.

I've updated it a bit, with some comments as to what is updated on a lead-in page, posted here at the bottom. I also remembered to finally put my name on it. As I add anything I'll try to add comments on this lead-in link.

[DJC911]

Ugh. Too much information. O.K., here is my situation, someone tell me what oil to use:

81 911, 108k miles, daily driver. Live in Arizona. Ambient temps range 65-95F right now (coldest morning to highest day time temp). Going to rise to between 80-115F by mid summer. I do a lot more city than highway driving. I need to do an oil change.

What should I get, and from where can I get it?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by DJC911

Ugh. Too much information. O.K., here is my situation, someone tell me what oil to use:

81 911, 108k miles, daily driver. Live in Arizona. Ambient temps range 65-95F right now (coldest morning to highest day time temp). Going to rise to between 80-115F by mid summer. I do a lot more city than highway driving. I need to do an oil change.

What should I get, and from where can I get it?

Look at the first post for a list. 20W-50 should be fine but perhaps some others may think otherwise.

[hcoles]

a short answer and others may disagree... I've switched to Brad Penn 20-50.
You may have to hunt around a bit or order the Brad Penn.

or you could use Swepco 15-40, with same story on where to get. It is likely to be more $$ than the BP.

other answers are in this thread somewhere...

[mobius911]

I just got an email ad from Eastwood that mentions their ZDDP additive. They claim one 10 ounce bottle per 4-5 quarts. Not sure what the concentration is, but it may be a replacement for the GM product that is NLA.

[cnavarro]

EOS is alive and kicking, just under a new part number: 88862586

Just thought I'd clear that up. It still makes an awesome assembly lube.

[richardlw]

That is the nice thing about a free country, you can buy whatever you want. But putting an anti-wear additive in the oil is asking for trouble unless you know the exact formulation of it and the oil you are putting it in. Then after you have used it and done oil analysis, maybe you won the lottery, probably not. You still won't know how much is getting burned onto the pistons and heads in the way of excess deposits.
Just buy a good oil and stop throwing your money away.

[teenerted1]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

EOS is alive and kicking, just under a new part number: 88862586

Just thought I'd clear that up. It still makes an awesome assembly lube.

google the part number and several online suppliers come up. some even have listings for SH lubes...but in 5-30

just added my last bottle of EOS from my old stock this weekend to the remainder of Mobil 1 in the garage.
from now on will be using brad penn or some old Kendall that one of the LAPS still has on their shelves. small little store that seems to sell thru all the well advertised CJ-4 and SM inventory. but still seems to havee a good supply of the old SJ and SH collecting dust on the shelves.

[scottb]

First, I'll confess that I have not read all 40-plus pages of this thread. Forgive me if this question has been asked and answered.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Mobil 1 15w-50? According to the chart attached to this article (http://tinyurl.com/6235bl) the 15w-50 is intended for, among other things, performance vehicles and flat tappet engines.

Comments?

[PatrickB]

Originally Posted by scottb

First, I'll confess that I have not read all 40-plus pages of this thread. Forgive me if this question has been asked and answered.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Mobil 1 15w-50? According to the chart attached to this article (http://tinyurl.com/6235bl) the 15w-50 is intended for, among other things, performance vehicles and flat tappet engines.

Comments?

For the Bell 47, I would suggest sticking with AeroShell Ashless Dispersant semi synthetic!

For the P-Car though... Stay away from the Mobil1 15w50! Reformulated hasn't got enough Z&P as the good old stuff! As a temporary fix, I had pretty good luck with the Mobil1 V-Twin 20w50. Good oil, but a complete PITA to find, and expensive. However, looking at the numbers though (Z&P), it might not be so good if you are using a Cat. Good for the motor, but bad for the Cat! This stuff virtually eliminated smoke at start up too! I recently switched to RedLine's Motorcycle oil that has Z&P number's right in line with what Mobil1's synthetic automotive line used to have... Much easier to find too, as my local Napa Store stocks the entire line of Redline products. Intersting note as I was able to speak to the RedLine rep. as he was in the store restocking inventory. He asked me what kind of vehicle I had, and before I could finish, HE was telling me the problems air cooled and flat tappet motors were facing due to the decrease in Z&P! He of course asked what I had been using, and said that the M1 V-Twin oil was very good, as long as I was not running a CAT with my engine, as the higher levels of Z&P would likely clog up the CAT. He of course suggested I try RedLine's Motorcycle Oil , which I did! Nice thing about their Motorcycle oil, is the different weights available. 10w30, 10w40, 20w50, and what I went with - 20w60. My car see's a lot of track use, primarily DE's at Willow Springs. My oil consumption has dropped noticeably. The rep also admitted that their regular automotive line has dropped their level of Z&P too.

If synthetic is what you like to run Scott, consider Redline Motorcycle oil!

[scottb]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

For the Bell 47, I would suggest sticking with AeroShell Ashless Dispersant semi synthetic!

Nope. Straight Aeroshell W100 (SAE 50) ashless dispersant dino for me.

[PatrickB]

One of these days, I'd love to go for a ride in that thing Scott!

[kach22i]

Double post............

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

from the competition cams website....

Engine Break-In Oil Additive Case - 12 (12oz.) Bottles
PART #159-12


DESCRIPTION:


COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil Additive

Time marches on . . . and generally that’s a good thing. But unfortunately, over time, some of the good stuff can get left behind. COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil Additive brings back the good stuff, delivering a specially engineered blend of extreme pressure break-in additives that have been removed from current off-the-shelf motor oils. Delivering added protection during the break-in process and beyond for all engine components, including the camshaft and lifters, COMP Cams® Engine Break-in Oil Additive is compatible with any petroleum, synthetic or blended motor oil.


COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil Additive extends the durability of internal engine components, protecting against premature camshaft, lifter and valve train failure. Best of all, COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil Additive has proven to deliver long term benefits with new or rebuilt engines through continued usage. Simply pour in a bottle for initial break-in, run the engine for approximately 1,000 miles, drain the system thoroughly and then refill with clean oil and another bottle of COMP Cams® Engine Break-In Oil Additive at each oil change. Part #159-12 consists of one dozen 12 oz bottles of engine break in lubricant.

Link:
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=159&Category_Code=

I still don't see where it says it contains ZDDP though.

I'm going to order some from here:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D159&N=700+400114+4294925094+115&autoview=sku

Any ideas on how much #159 to put in the oil?

EDIT:
Hold the freaking boat...............................

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CCA%2D159&N=700+400114+4294925094+115&autoview=sku

Superior lubrication for assembling your engine.
COMP Cams engine assembly lube is used by professional engine builders throughout the country for its superior lubricating properties and its ability to adhere to engine parts until the engine is started. This lubricant is also ideal for the ball-socket area of rocker arms. COMP Cams engine assembly lube has a white lithium base, and is easily removed with soap and water.

Order is on hold until I get some answers, I'm going to call them.

[jagular911]

Guys

If you really are interested in the Brad Penn 20W-50 and ZDDP Levels-

I can find out all of the details

The VP R&D is a good friend of mine, as I worked in the Kendall Business from 85 to 92, in Refining, R&D, and as Director of Sales Engineering. I live approx 25 miles from the plant, and talk to these guys all the time. I am a Chem E, MBA. Have been in this industry since 1983.

The reason that the starburst doesn't apply-it doesn't apply to 20W oils (at least it didn't in the past because the starburst is really focused on fuel efficient, multigrades)

Look at straight grades - they don't have a starburst, but they do have API certifications.

I have been rebuilding a 73 911 since 2000, and am in the process of putting the engine back together. I am as interested in this as you are.

Jon

[Scooter]

Another BP convert from Mobil 1 as of today.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Another BP convert from Mobil 1 as of today.

Lightweight! This a a true believing convert:

[HarryD]

have been reading a number of threads here and on Rennlist. One issue that seems to come up is the frequent citation by many of information they find on a web site. I caution anyone using a web site (even the oil manufacturer ones) to verify the date of the information posted. You will find it astonishing how often the information is outdated and does not relate to products currently available.

I started this thread with a focus on Zinc and Phosphorus, Mr Navarro has reported there is much more to the story and you need to be sure you understand the entire additive package. Like I posted ablove, there are good oils out there for us. Sadly, few of them will be found at our FLAPS (friendly local auto parts stores).

***addition**

I have been taken to task about the lack of suitable products at your FLAPS. But it is not all gloom snd doom, I know they can be found but you need to look and read the labels.

[PatrickB]

Per the information from CNavarro, most motorcycle oils DO have the necessary amounts of Z&P.
The only caveat, if levels of Z&P are excessively high in numbers, you may risk damage to the catalytic converter... I run without one, so it does not affect my situation. I also use an oil that is readily stocked by my FLAP! RedLine Synthetic Motorcycle Oil 20W60.

[rickdm]

I managed to buy a couple of cases of Redline 20W-50 at a good price thinking that it has all the wear additives that I might need for my 3.2 Carrera. Now I am seeing posts suggesting the Redline motorcycle oil. Do I need to add a bottle of GM EOS when using the Redline automobile oil? This is a car that is mostly driven at the track.