Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

BTW, I used 10w30 M1 in the V6 Contour. I neglected to say the car (and engine) was a POS. The engine developed a rod knock at 60,000 mi, and that was with 3k oil changes and TONS of preventative maintainence. No matter how much you polish a turd it's still a turd!

That is a shame. I had a couple of Crown Vics (99 and 2002) which were great cars. The 4.6 V8 was tougher on oil than our German 6 cylinders though. I could only get 15000 out a batch of oil in the V8 vs 25000+ out of my BMWs. I currently have a 2008 Taurus fleet car with the 3.5 Duratec with 265HP. It has tons of power (= tons of torque steer) and the car drives and rides great. It burned a little oil in the first 5000-7000 miles but that has stopped. Since it a fleet car we do 5000 mile oil changes (5W30 bulk oil) at Jiffy Lube. This is certainly not my idea of condition based oil monitoring but since they are paying the bill I am not going to argue too hard. Maybe next time I get an oil change I'll get a sample tested just for fun.

Don

[doug_porsche]

Okay, I have read this thread and agree with the person who wanted to stab their eyes out with a pencil.

I think I know how to ask the question so my pea brain can understand it.

Charles,

What oil are you putting in your air cool 911 next oil change?

Doug

[tcar]

anyone used

www.zddplus.com

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, just could not read this whole thread.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by doug_porsche

Okay, I have read this thread and agree with the person who wanted to stab their eyes out with a pencil.

I think I know how to ask the question so my pea brain can understand it.

Charles,

What oil are you putting in your air cool 911 next oil change?

Doug

Doug,

Alot to digest.

I am currently using Delo 400 w/GM EOS. When my EOS runs out, I will switch to Brad Penn or SWEPCO. Charles says:

Originally Posted by cnavarro

No, I never did say or recommend the new SM rated 15w50 in either formulation (ep or not). Their own web site says it is a new formulation, not the original one. Why change a good thing when supposedly "re-introducing" it.

IMHO, the current M1 15w50 formulation shares nothing in common with the tried and true original formulas from a few years ago and unless Mobil did thorough testing to prove it's of equal or better performance compared to the old version, it's not a proven product. It's just a new oil from a well known brand filling the spot of a previously excellent oil.

The Swepco and Brad Penn formulations have been around for a LONG TIME and have not been changed and are proven.

If you insist on using Mobil 1, ditch the cat and go for the motorcycle versions. They are a good oil I would say are equivalent in protection to the Brad Penn and Swepco from our own testing (not just VOA results).

You don't have to use Brad Penn or Swepco. There are plenty of other good oils out there to choose from that have been discussed thoroughly (Royal Purple, Redline, Elf, Motul, etc). Swepco is the proven favorite of many Porsche shops and Brad Penn has been around since Kendall ceased being Kendall, but was just an unknown for so many years (and a well kept secret).

The Brad Penn is cheap protection. That's what I run, and I have lots of other oils around to choose from. I don't drive enough to justify Swepco for it's longer drain intervals and I'm not as concerned with every last HP the Swepco has been proven to deliver.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by doug_porsche

Okay, I have read this thread and agree with the person who wanted to stab their eyes out with a pencil.

I think I know how to ask the question so my pea brain can understand it.

Charles,

What oil are you putting in your air cool 911 next oil change?

Doug

My last fill was Brad Penn 20w50, for 6 months, ~4500 mi. The current fill is a 50/50 blend of Brad Penn 0w30 and 20w50 (trying to net a 10w40 as suggested by their tech guys), so as to see if there's any difference in oil consumption and wear versus running the straight up 20w50. Pressure is still good and the engine does start a bit smoother on the really, really cold 20F mornings. All in the name of testing... :-)

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

My last fill was Brad Penn 20w50, for 6 months, ~4500 mi. The current fill is a 50/50 blend of Brad Penn 0w30 and 20w50 (trying to net a 10w40 as suggested by their tech guys), so as to see if there's any difference in oil consumption and wear versus running the straight up 20w50.

Weeping Jesus on the Cross...

This thread is now going to devolve into blends?

Doug is right. Pass the pencils.








Tim

[cnavarro]

LOL, no, it's just something I wanted to test at their suggestion. An academic exercise, to try to see if the wear is any different. For now, there's no need to blend your own oils nor add anything to the right oils. 20w50 Brad Penn (or Swepco 15w40 for those who want something ligher) is sufficient, as are the previously discussed oils found deep within this thread :-)

[hcoles]

just wanted to go on record.... today I did an oil change and installed PB 20-50. Put on a new rotor and belt. Not long ago I put Delvac (ordered from Charles) in the G50. So I'm ready to go for this driving season.... BP and Delvac thanks to this thread. The idle is smoother.. but I think it is due to two valves that were a hair loose... not much... maybe it was the BP.. :-) The only problem is I saw a tear in a CV boot... so I guess I'll be working on that.. picked up a spare half shaft asm. from a buddy, so I'll rebuild that and then do a swap. Off to the ax tomorrow at O dark thirty.

[RWebb]

IF you blend it please make it taste like a Bordeaux...

[kach22i]

Selection of the right Motor Oil for the Corvair and other Engines
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

Good paper (28 pages long - 13/04/2008), mentions Brad Penn oil and others.

It says to send questions and or suggestions to oil@asboman.com and will answer them in the next draft.

[dshepp806]

Originally Posted by RWebb

IF you blend it please make it taste like a Bordeaux...

Left bank or right bank?

[ToddM]

Yep, I'm doing the Brad Penn 15/40 blend thing now as well. Would have went for the Swepco 15/40 but the Brad Penn was a much less expensive solution

[brads911sc]

Pete (God over on rennlist) uses Kendall GT1 20w50... for those who want a non-Syn oil... I for one will never use a Synthetic oil. I have an 83 SC, 95k miles, bone dry, clean car, well maintained... and its never seen Syn... and I dont intend to introduce it now... that rules out BP. I called 10 shops that specialize in Porsche and other exotics here in houston... and none of them have every heard of BP... including two shops recommended to my by users of Pelican... I called BP and they dont have one distributor in the state of Texas... they sent me to Oklahoma City.... if this oil is the end of good oil... then they should have a distributor in a state that has 20 million residents... I will use Kendal GT-1... Its on the shelf at almost every shop that works on Porsche and Ferrari... Just another perspective...

Brad
83 SC Targa, SSI's, Dansk Sport, Pirelli P-Zero Neros, Bilstein HD's, Rennaire Complete AC System.
08 Accord
72 911 T Sold
72 911 T Sold
74 914 2.0 Sold

[steve1rob2]

For those looking for BP, The Oil Warehouse will ship cases to your door for about $4 per quart. Much less than I have seen on ebay or even than I can get locally in FL. They also mentioned they have a new 0-40W if interested that he told me BP developed just for old Porsche guys. I just purchased 3 cases of the 20-50W.

I have no affiliation and am getting nothing for offering this up, I had just scoured the planet for the oil and thought you guys might benefit from the info.

[cnavarro]

To clarify, Brad Penn does not offer a 0w40 Racing Oil. It is a straight 40 wt, with no synthetic content, like their other monograde racing oils, which are not as detergent as the multigrade oils. It sure would be nice to have them make a 0w40 or 5w40, but they have no intentions of doing so.

[rickdm]

Lat time I checked Brad, DFW was in texas. Zimm's in Bedford carries it. I have bought multiple cases there, and they are a very reputable and long time Porsche repair shop.

[p911sc]

Charles,
I am planning to use the Brad Penn in my next oil change but have a few questions.

This may have already answered. I admit that I am only about half way through the read of this post. The Brad Penn bottles and box don't have the API Starburst symbol. It does say "Penn Grade 1 SAE20W50 Partial Synthetic Racing Oil is formulated with ....
-Additives for use in any car, light truck, van, SUV or deisel where API SJ or CF is recommended...."

My questions are:
1) The above quote refers to the additives meeting the API standard. I always thought that the service standard refered to the oil mixture and its performance as a whole?? including wear tests. What does this mean?
2) Is the seal absent because Brad Penn is listed as a racing oil and it is designed to a different standard? Are other racing oils similar in that they don't bear the api starburst?

Thanks in advance.
Rick

[billybek]

[QUOTE=kach22i;3883886]Selection of the right Motor Oil for the Corvair and other Engines
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf

Very interesting paper, thanks for posting the link!

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by p911sc

Charles,
I am planning to use the Brad Penn in my next oil change but have a few questions.

This may have already answered. I admit that I am only about half way through the read of this post. The Brad Penn bottles and box don't have the API Starburst symbol. It does say "Penn Grade 1 SAE20W50 Partial Synthetic Racing Oil is formulated with ....
-Additives for use in any car, light truck, van, SUV or deisel where API SJ or CF is recommended...."

My questions are:
1) The above quote refers to the additives meeting the API standard. I always thought that the service standard refered to the oil mixture and its performance as a whole?? including wear tests. What does this mean?
2) Is the seal absent because Brad Penn is listed as a racing oil and it is designed to a different standard? Are other racing oils similar in that they don't bear the api starburst?

Thanks in advance.
Rick

In this case, it moreso has to do with the additive levels and the level of detergency of the oil. Remember, even up to 2004, most new cars, including Porsche, called for an API SH/SJ oil! Although it has not be put through the complete sequence for gaining ACEA approval, the Brad Penn guys think that the 20w50 Racing would easily pass the ACEA A3/B3 sequence as well in previous discussions I have had with them.

And yes, the API Starburst will only be found on oils that are API approved, and most specialty oils, including racing and high performance oils, are exempt or excluded from API testing.

A good example of this is the VW 505.01 spec motor oil, it carries an ACEA A3/B3 but also an API SJ rating and Mobil makes a separate Mobil 1 to this spec since the normal 0w40 does not meet their requirements, sold only in Europe, in a 5w40, for TDI engines like the 5.0 V10, as well as the gas W8 and W12 engines used in the Passat and Phaeton (i.e. very high performance engines). Now if they would only bring that here :-)

[donstevens]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

In this case, it moreso has to do with the additive levels and the level of detergency of the oil. Remember, even up to 2004, most new cars, including Porsche, called for an API SH/SJ oil! Although it has not be put through the complete sequence for gaining ACEA approval, the Brad Penn guys think that the 20w50 Racing would easily pass the ACEA A3/B3 sequence as well in previous discussions I have had with them.

And yes, the API Starburst will only be found on oils that are API approved, and most specialty oils, including racing and high performance oils, are exempt or excluded from API testing.

To add to Charles' comments about API testing, it more often boils down to simple economics.....the following is an excerpt for Amsoil's website (from 3-5 years ago) relative to API certification.

"The cost for running a test program for a single passenger car motor oil formulation is from $125,000 to $300,000, depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through or requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average. (That amount goes to $275,000 to $500,000 for a Heavy Duty Diesel licensing program on a specific formula.) Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed for $825 per year for non-members and $625 per year for members. There is also a small royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over one million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2 to 3 years, which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs."

As I noted above, this information was written several years ago so today's costs are undoubtedly higher. So for many specialty oil blending companies (Amsoil and Brad Penn for example) it does not make financial sense to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to get an oil API certified that is intended for realtively low volume, specialty applications. Amsoil does have (and I suspect BP does too) a few products (intended for high volume passenger car applications) that are API certified where volume sold justifies the expense.

Does that mean the specialty oils are not good oils if they are not API starbusrt certified? While the members of the API and mass producers of SM certified oils would like the general public to think so, the truth is often quite the contrary.

Don