Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Thanks Harry.

Jim, yes, if I weren't such a loyal GT-1 buyer for 20 years, I wouldn't even consider it.

I haven't read the whole thread. Is the standard GT-1 available at AutoZone no longer good oil for our cars?

[88-diamondblue]

Kendall GT-1 is not the same oil as it was when it was produced in Pennsylvania. That said I understood that Kendall GT-1 already had enough ZDDP and now they are saying that there is more ZDDP but it appears to have the same amount as they claimed before. Just a bit skeptical of their marketing on this one.

And the titanium additive? I have not seen any thing on the use of it in oil. Some feed back from those in the know about it would help.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Thanks Harry.

Jim, yes, if I weren't such a loyal GT-1 buyer for 20 years, I wouldn't even consider it.

I haven't read the whole thread. Is the standard GT-1 available at AutoZone no longer good oil for our cars?

Based on Peter Z's testimony, I looked up the product data sheet (http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/documents/kendall/automotive_engine_oils/Ken%20GT-1%20High%20Performance%20MO%20(Ti)%20TDS%20Web.pdf). The data seems to indicate that for the 20W-50 product, we have enough ofhte "good stuff".

FWIW: Our pals at Mobil do not see fit to publish similar data in their product data sheets for their products, only marketing pap.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Jim Garfield

It might be great stuff, but any time I hear phrases like "Liquid Titanium" my anti marketing hackles are raised. The onus is on them to convince me why I need to use their oil, and it better be more than the "Liquid Titanium" advantage.

+1
any adv. with the term "titanium" in regards to performance is suspect, much like the overused term, "turbo".

When Conoco purchased Kendall Oil a few years ago, they kept the packaging but filled the containers with Conoco oil.

The latest Kendall (Conoco) advertising claims the same level of ZDDP and phosphorous as the original Kendal GT-1. However, if so, the market is then limited to older, pre-cat vehicles, thus the doubt.

Sherwood

[bkreigsr]

The last two times I picked up a case of BP 'Racing' the containers were marked "High Performance Formulation". The Racing logo still appears several web sites (oilwarehouse), but not on the BP site.
Question - is there still such a thing as BP Racing Oil?
thanks
Bill K

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Based on Peter Z's testimony, I looked up the product data sheet (http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/documents/kendall/automotive_engine_oils/Ken%20GT-1%20High%20Performance%20MO%20(Ti)%20TDS%20Web.pdf). The data seems to indicate that for the 20W-50 product, we have enough ofhte "good stuff".

FWIW: Our pals at Mobil do not see fit to publish similar data in their product data sheets for their products, only marketing pap.

Thank you for your help Harry, much appreciated.

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by HarryD

FWIW: Our pals at Mobil do not see fit to publish similar data in their product data sheets for their products, only marketing pap.

I'll ask again the question I posted several months ago re Mobil 1 and the ZDDP topic at hand.

The 4-7-09 Mobil 1 information sheet originally shown in post #1266 states that the current formulation Mobil 1 15W 50 has 1,200ppm phosphorus, 1,300ppm Zinc, and is for flat tappet and racing applications.

Those appear to be acceptable numbers, not just "marketing pap".

So, any problems using M1 15W50 instead of the pricier M1 VTwin 20W50 I'm currently running?






Tim

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by tchanson

I'll ask again the question I posted several months ago re Mobil 1 and the ZDDP topic at hand.

The 4-7-09 Mobil 1 information sheet originally shown in post #1266 states that the current formulation Mobil 1 15W 50 has 1,200ppm phosphorus, 1,300ppm Zinc, and is for flat tappet and racing applications.

Those appear to be acceptable numbers, not just "marketing pap".

So, any problems using M1 15W50 instead of the pricier M1 VTwin 20W50 I'm currently running?






Tim

Tim:

I am very aware of the web page you provide the in the link. This is not a Product Data Sheet (PDS) which is dated and has a reference number. A PDS is often used by the customer lubrication engineer to decide which oil producer products are needed lubricate and protect their products. Because of this use, the PDS sheet has a higher status than a table published by a annonymus group.

In the case of Mobil 1, their PDS sheet (Mobil 1 15W-50) is lacking as it does not include Zn, P, detergent, TBN and other critical data. If they are proud of their data, why not publish it? Leads one to wonder, doesn't it?

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Because of this use, the PDS sheet has a higher status than a table published by a annonymus group.

In the case of Mobil 1, their PDS sheet is lacking as it does not include Zn, P, detergent, TBN and other critical data.

I understand the distinction re a PDS. However, the information sheet in question is not published by an anonymous group, but instead on the Mobil site itself. It's either true or not.

Agreed that a PDS would be preferable, but given the wide availability of M1 15W50, perhaps a simple Blackstone analysis of a current batch would be worthwhile to verify Mobil's stated numbers, if they are in doubt.

As one of many former M1 15W50 "red cap" users here, it would be of interest to verify if we can go back to it after the "Extended Performance" 15W50 formulation misstep.




Tim

[dshepp806]

I agree that a virgin (independent) analysis would be in order (I'd use two labs, as well). I may do this when I renew my Staveley's agreement.

Doyle

Originally Posted by tchanson

I understand the distinction re a PDS. However, the information sheet in question is not published by an anonymous group, but instead on the Mobil site itself. It's either true or not.

Agreed that a PDS would be preferable, but given the wide availability of M1 15W50, perhaps a simple Blackstone analysis of a current batch would be worthwhile to verify Mobil's stated numbers, if they are in doubt.

As one of many former M1 15W50 "red cap" users here, it would be of interest to verify if we can go back to it after the "Extended Performance" 15W50 formulation misstep.




Tim

[nesslar]

I never saw anything more on the John Deere Plus 50 Diesel Motor Oil....the specs. looked good. Any further word on this stuff? Lar

[HarryD]

Today I received a PM for a guy who was overwhelmed by the oil threads.

He asked a simple question, what oil for my turbo? I am not sure BP or SWEPCO is the best due tothe heat the oil sees in my Turbo. I want to use Mobil 1 for it's heat resistance but the ZDDP Issues has me worried. What should I do?

Well, I certainly do not know but I will bet that someone here does. Can we help him out?

[GaryR]

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50, best of both worlds though I believe even regular M1 15-50 has suitable ZDDP.

[SRT356/911]

What year is the turbo? ie. Does it have flat tappet valves?

Who says M-1 has the required ZDDP?

The last time M1 dropped the levels, they told nobody and many got burned and lost engines.

I for one will never let M1 cross my path ever again.

[acro]

Has anybody used or looked into using aircraft oil such as phillips 20-50w X/C or aeroshell 20-50. These are designed for air cooled lycomings and continental engines and i use phillips in my pitts biplane and it takes some serious abuse!.Just wondering as i just bought an 84 911.

[JFairman]

There's a new green oil.
It's biodegradable, made from animal fats here in the USA, and rinses off your hands with water.

Gunnar Racing is using it in their new LMPC Oreca in the ALMS.
The prototype race car has a 430HP Corvette motor and they finished second in class at the 12hrs of Sebring and won the LMPC class yesterday at Long Beach.

They are saying it is better than synthetic and you can pour it out on your lawn if you want.

Maybe this stuff is the future...

Green Earth Technologies

Green Earth Technologies - G-OILŪ - G1 Racing Oil

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[GaryR]

But what's this all about?
"WARNING:
Too slick for aluminum engines.
DO NOT USE."

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by JFairman

...

They are saying ...you can pour it out on your lawn if you want.

...

that would ONLY be true for unused oil - in fact, all new motor oils are rel. nontoxic

used motor oil - of any type - will always contain heavy metals (from wear on bearings, etc.) & combustion byproducts

ALL used motor oil needs to be treated as a hazardous waste (which it is) - recycle at an approved facility (County Transfer site, aka "dump") and avoid prolonged skin contact

[carrera turbo]

Originally Posted by acro

Has anybody used or looked into using aircraft oil such as phillips 20-50w X/C or aeroshell 20-50. These are designed for air cooled lycomings and continental engines and i use phillips in my pitts biplane and it takes some serious abuse!.Just wondering as i just bought an 84 911.

with out reading the entire thread does anyone know if these aircraft oils will work well in our cars. im in alaska and dont have brad penn up here. but alot of the aero shell etc. tons of small aircooled planes moving around up here.

thanks guys for any help.

cheers ed

[donstevens]

Someone must have researched this before.....?

I have a comment that one should consider. Piston aircraft engines typically run a very limited RPM range. Full throttle take offs might be 2500 rpm. Cruise is more like 2000-2200 rpm. Our engines run over a much wider range of RPM and torque. I'd have to assume that aircraft oil is formulated for this range.

Don