Ultimate Motor Oil Thread or Why we hate CJ4/SM oils

[Jerome74911S]

Originally Posted by Jim Garfield

If you are in the US, Brad Penn is probably your best bet.

He asks, ". . .what is the least-expensive, most-easily available oil. . .?" He does not ask what the best oil is, so I would rule out Brad Penn, because it is not the cheapest, nor easily obtainable all over the place. I feel that a better answer to his question (assuming he's in North America) would something like Shell Rotella, because it meets his parameters. Some on this forum think that Rotella T is the best value out there.

Obviously, there are a million opinions to be found here, but you can buy Shell Rotella T at any Walmart, or truck stop, so it answers his questions fairly well.

[Trackrash]

Too bad Rotella doesn't come in 20-50.... I used Rotella conventional 15-40 for years before I started tracking my car. I agree, great oil and not expensive.

[Jim Garfield]

Originally Posted by Jerome74911S

He asks, ". . .what is the least-expensive, most-easily available oil. . .?" He does not ask what the best oil is, so I would rule out Brad Penn, because it is not the cheapest, nor easily obtainable all over the place. I feel that a better answer to his question (assuming he's in North America) would something like Shell Rotella, because it meets his parameters. Some on this forum think that Rotella T is the best value out there.

Obviously, there are a million opinions to be found here, but you can buy Shell Rotella T at any Walmart, or truck stop, so it answers his questions fairly well.

You may be right, but around here Brad Penn is about the same price as Rotella and available within 10 miles......

[Iciclehead]

Just got off the phone speaking to Mobil 1 technical support. They were very much aware of the ZDDP issue and made a strong recommendation for their Mobil 1 15W-50 as a specific for our cars. Apparently (and this checks out on their web tech info), there is about 1300 ppm of zinc in that particular weight which from what I can gather, is workable. According to the tech, that level of ZDDP is peculiar to that particular weight.

The other option was the V-Twin 20W-50 intended for Harley's.

It certainly is easier to get up here in the far, icy north...but again, as always, do what floats your boat and not your valves.

Dennis

[RWebb]

Are we certain that Shell Rotella T has adequate ZDDp and that has not been changed recently?

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Iciclehead

Just got off the phone speaking to Mobil 1 technical support. They were very much aware of the ZDDP issue and made a strong recommendation for their Mobil 1 15W-50 as a specific for our cars. Apparently (and this checks out on their web tech info), there is about 1300 ppm of zinc in that particular weight which from what I can gather, is workable. According to the tech, that level of ZDDP is peculiar to that particular weight.

The other option was the V-Twin 20W-50 intended for Harley's.

It certainly is easier to get up here in the far, icy north...but again, as always, do what floats your boat and not your valves.

Dennis

Hi Dennis:

Can you post where you saw the tech data? I know the markets data shows this but there PDS sheets appear to lack this data. As I have noted before, this makes me suspicious.

[drtyler]

Here is a link to the Mobil 1 charts showing Zn and Phos levels for their entire lineup:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

Originally Posted by HarryD

Hi Dennis:

Can you post where you saw the tech data? I know the markets data shows this but there PDS sheets appear to lack this data. As I have noted before, this makes me suspicious.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by drtyler

Here is a link to the Mobil 1 charts showing Zn and Phos levels for their entire lineup:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

I have seen this before. My only concern is whether is carries the same weight as a Product Data Sheet (PDS), typically used by lubrication engineers to make their selections. If you look at the Mobile 1 PDS sheets, they omit some of the data (Zn and P for example) seen here. This seems very odd to me.

[gearya]

I see 3 different types of Shell Rotella T. Which one is best for a flat tappet gasoline engine with a lot of miles?

[911pcars]

Seems like the Shell Rotella T, BP and Valvoline VR-1 oils are comparably priced. However, when on sale, The VR-1 is the better buy (the OP's question). YMMV.

Sherwood

[Trackrash]

It seems that Shell may have reformulated its Rotella. I was using Rotella 15-40 for Diesel motors a number of years ago. I don't see that on Shell's web site now.

I also can't find a data sheet with the zinc content for any of Shell's oils.

[db_cooper]

Originally Posted by gearya

I am sorry if this repeats something I missed form reading this very long thread, but what is the least-expensive, most-easily available oil I can use for several thousand miles without draining it?

Delo 400LE 15w40 ..Group II+..almost a synthetic oil with big ZDDP numbers, cheap as chips...unless you really, really want a 50w..this is very good for short runs. 911s don't need a 50w. The Delo is a very, very thick 40w anyways..if that worries some.

Petroleum Quality Institute of America

[JessL]

Re: Rotella,
Bobistheoilguy.com has recent virgin sample of 5-40 T6 synthetic Rotella posted with, as I recall, 1200 ppm of ZDDP.
I'm running this oil in my wife's 993 with excellent wear numbers according to Blackstone. This oil works much better in our situation, which is her 3 mile commute to work. Since the engine is in warm-up mode all the time, the thinner oil is better than the 15-50 Mobil1 I was running before.
I also run Rotella in my VW VR6 motor with excellent reports also.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Jess

[Iciclehead]

Guys, in addition to the conversation, here is some info:

Zinc Level of Mobil 1 15W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil

Synthetic Oil | Additive for Flat Tappet Cams

Dennis

[db_cooper]

Originally Posted by JessL

Re: Rotella,
Bobistheoilguy.com has recent virgin sample of 5-40 T6 synthetic Rotella posted with, as I recall, 1200 ppm of ZDDP.
I'm running this oil in my wife's 993 with excellent wear numbers according to Blackstone. This oil works much better in our situation, which is her 3 mile commute to work. Since the engine is in warm-up mode all the time, the thinner oil is better than the 15-50 Mobil1 I was running before.
I also run Rotella in my VW VR6 motor with excellent reports also.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Jess

Yep..my 86 911 has been running Rotella T6 5w40 for years and no camshaft/rocker wear..valve adjustments are very minor and the cams look great.

Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40 is my first choice and a viscosity range/hydrocracked oil Porsche recommends.

Lots of very fast Porsche's on the autobahn going full throttle with 5w40 synthetic oils in the engines with no ill effects..it works just fine.

The Delo 400LS 15w40 might appeal to the Porsche crowd that likes to change their oil every 3000 miles and want an uber thick semi dino 40w oil with big zinc numbers and a strong additive package.

[tomeric914]

FWIW The Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Most if not all of the passenger car motor oils tested have less than the 1200 ppm Zn required. Most of the HD diesel oils fall around 1,200 ppm. What's the big deal about Brad Penn?

Rotella T Triple (1,098 ppm Zn) http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/rotella.htm

Brad Penn "Diesel" (1,148 ppm Zn) http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/bradpenn.htm

Chevron DELO (1,490 ppm Zn) http://www.pqiamerica.com/May%202013/chevrondelo.htm

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by tomeric914

FWIW The Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Most if not all of the passenger car motor oils tested have less than the 1200 ppm Zn required. Most of the HD diesel oils fall around 1,200 ppm. What's the big deal about Brad Penn?

Rotella T Triple (1,098 ppm Zn) Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Brad Penn "Diesel" (1,148 ppm Zn) Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Chevron DELO (1,490 ppm Zn) Petroleum Quality Institute of America

In a nutshell. since car makers started using roller tappets to actuate the valves, the high levels of ZDDP required for flat tappets is no longer needed. The lower ZDDP helps to extend the life of catalysts which the EPA finds to be desirable. As a result, the SM/SN etc oils have lowered the ZDDP requirements. Hence most consumer oils are now below the 1200 ppm levels typically needed.

The Brad Penn we are interested in is the 20W-50 version.

I hope this clears it up for you.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by tomeric914

Most if not all of the passenger car motor oils tested have less than the 1200 ppm Zn required. Most of the HD diesel oils fall around 1,200 ppm. What's the big deal about Brad Penn?

I believe this was caused by using oils with low ZDDP -

[tomeric914]

Originally Posted by HarryD

The Brad Penn we are interested in is the 20W-50 version.

I hope this clears it up for you.

Not quite. My point was if ZDDP is the concern, and HD oils meet the 1,200 ppm Zn requirement, then why are many gaga over Brad Penn?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by tomeric914

Not quite. My point was if ZDDP is the concern, and HD oils meet the 1,200 ppm Zn requirement, then why are many gaga over Brad Penn?

To foment motor oil arguments over the internet.

Duh.

Or, folks use the oil and since it has the proper levels of zinc, recommend it to others. If you find an oil of the proper viscosity and zinc level, use it. If Brad Penn is the oil that fits the bill...