Another Engine Rebuild Thread - 80 3.0L

[wastintime]

Originally Posted by mca

For the record so I don't have to repeat myself (Andy ).

I have Elephant finned oil lines with a Carrera style external cooler - wide mouth connections and no fan.

My lines GET HOT so the external t-stat is in fact opening. Again, I should pull it and see how much it is opening in order to confirm that I am getting FULL flow.

I did not test the internal thermostat from the engine that I used for the rebuild. In retrospect, I absolutely should have done that. Last night I checked the internal thermostat from the 82 engine. It opened up as expected.

I got a hot flash for a second last night when I thought that I may have installed the internal thermostat incorrectly. However, I was able to look through my pictures and confirm that it is installed properly.

My engine mounted oil cooler has some seepage coming from the bottom of the cooler (VERY minor - maybe a drop would fall every week). Could just need to be snugged up.

Doesn't this indicate that the cooler is at least getting oil through it?

I am running Vavoline Racing oil 20/50.

My oil pressure is exceptional.

My fan has a few chipped blades but that should not make a huge difference on the magnitude about which we are speaking.

It is hot and humid here in Charleston, SC - 90+.

-------------------------

Next steps will be:

1) To get HEs hooked up. Confirm mixture and timing.

2) Swap out my dizzy and use the one from the engine that I rebuilt. Maybe it isn't advancing all of the way or something else is screwy. I have read that temps will increase at highway speeds if this is the case.

3) Pull the external t-stat and test.

4) Go on a murdering spree and drive my 911 off of a bridge with me inside.

Each step will be tested before moving on to the next step.

---------------

I appreciate the help from everyone. I will plug along!

LOL, dude gimme a break, it's my brithday... plus I can't keep track of all the 911s I work on. Right now I've got an Audi that's driving me insane... some cars were just not meant to be tracked... without tons of mods.

Couple of points... you are correct about the dist., like I said if you are not running as advanced as you should be you will be getting less HP, and running hotter. Advanced timing causes the motor to run cooler, and increases HP, but at the risk of knock which is why you run higher octane if you advance timing.

Running lean will do the same thing... well, not the HP with an NA car, but the leaner you run the hotter you'll run... and I still think the very first thing you should do is check your mixture. Then it's very easy to check the timing at higher RPMs with a timing light... plus we can't be talking that high of an RPM, I mean how fast can you possibly be running cruising on 526?

I know you don't have a bra, but maybe there is something impeding the airflow over the oil cooler?

That's a decent cooler... although I've seen an '85 cruise at those temps before.

I suppose it makes sense for your own validation to hook up the HEs, but it's not going to help except at idle... it's hard not to compare your old enigne to the new one because technically they shouldn't have any similiar issues, and yet.... which is why I'm wondering if the cooler isn't getting enough air now.

DUDE! What spark plugs are you running? Have you pulled any plugs since cranking it?

P.S. I liked the movie Old School, but let's not go driving any more 911s off of bridges. It can't be that bad... the motor is brand new!

[mca]

I fixed my gauge wiring on Monday and Kevin came over to take it for a spin.

The car was missing big time - at least that is how it felt. I put the LM-1 on it and it was running seriously lean. I think it read 16 at idle. After messing with it a bit I got it to about 13.1 at idle.

I decided to drop it off with Stan at Rennsport so that he can sort it out. Honestly, after doing the rebuild and installing the SSIs / exhaust I am pretty tired of messing with it. Stan can get it tuned much faster and safer than I can. I dropped off the CIS, dizzy, wires from the 80 engine in the event that he needs to use some of those parts.

The interesting thing is that she ran cool on my 20 mile highway trip to Stan's. Only got up to 200 which is below the 9 o'clock mark. Probably had to do with getting the mixture back to the slightly rich side.

I will keep you posted.

[wastintime]

Yep, you were running lean, and that could explain the missing too...

[mca]

The missing was still there even though the mixture was on target.

Maybe it is just the wires. Still haven't heard anything.

[wastintime]

Fair enough... I deleted my post. While I would never normally bash a shop openly... unless there was some really good reason, being a former shop owner myself I felt there was one comment I really needed to refute especially since it was posted that Stan had said it and was equally as uncalled for.

Trust me, I used to be Stan's biggest champion, I'm not anymore,. so I understand where you're coming from.

[mca]

Well, I got my car back today and it is running like a champ!

The majority of my injectors were clogged - basically dribbling fuel and not spraying. They were all pulled, cleaned, and bench tested.

Also, my dizzy was not advancing properly. They pulled the diaphragm off of my 80 dizzy and put it on the 82 dizzy. Works great now.

Car pulls strong and runs smooth. The difference is amazing!

I was only able to drive it for about 20 minutes from the shop to work this morning. Traffic was moderate, outside temps around 90 (97% humidity in full sun), kept RMPs going up and down ... engine temps barley got up to the first white dash mark (90C). Sweet.

Anyhow, the shop did a great job. It was best that I left this challenge to the pros - would have taken me triple the amount of time and still probably wouldn't have had it tuned exactly right.

Cheers,
Craig

[timc]

Originally Posted by mca

Well, I got my car back today and it is running like a champ!

The majority of my injectors were clogged - basically dribbling fuel and not spraying. They were all pulled, cleaned, and bench tested.

Also, my dizzy was not advancing properly. They pulled the diaphragm off of my 80 dizzy and put it on the 82 dizzy. Works great now.

Car pulls strong and runs smooth. The difference is amazing!

I was only able to drive it for about 20 minutes from the shop to work this morning. Traffic was moderate, outside temps around 90 (97% humidity in full sun), kept RMPs going up and down ... engine temps barley got up to the first white dash mark (90C). Sweet.

Anyhow, the shop did a great job. It was best that I left this challenge to the pros - would have taken me triple the amount of time and still probably wouldn't have had it tuned exactly right.

Cheers,
Craig

Glad to hear it is running good, I know you worked hard on this one. Good Job!!

[911 tweaks]

awesome work AND patirnce there Craig !!
Time for break in maneuvers now !! Do a lot of slow~moderate acceleration up to 5k rpm and then decell (off the gas) down to 3k.
Best of luck !!
Bob

[Elombard]

OK Now you can relax, forget about the $$$ you have spent over the past 6 months and enjoy the car for several years with vitually no investment.....oh wait what about the suspension...is the credit card on life support yet :-)

[mca]

Yes, looking very forward to enjoying the car.

I still have to finish the heat back date - waiting on parts. Also need to bend my muffler down as it is making slight contact with the bumper.

Besides that, I am ready to roll!

Stan did say that my vavles may be a little on the loose side which he said is a common mistake for newbies such as myself. He offered to have me come into the shop and show me how to do the valve adjust with the engine in the car. He would show me some tips and help me develop the "feel" of a proper adjustment. I was blown away by his kindness and willingness to teach me.

Thanks for all of the support along the way. I am very appreciative for the wealth of information. I could not have done this without the Pelican community.

A special thanks goes out to Kevin for helping me with the cam timing and installation of the pistons. He also helped me drop the engine, install the clutch (well, he did all of the clutch), re-install the engine, crank it up for the first time, etc. I am sure there is more to add to the list - he spent many hours with me and kept my spirits up despite some hairy moments.

Also, thanks to Pelican for organizing the rebuild packages. I will admit, it was tough to sort through all of the miscellaneous bags but at least everything was there. My only complaint was the quality of the exhaust gaskets. Very thin compared to the new gaskets I purchased when I installed the SSIs.

Cheers,
Craig

[Dixie]

Craig,

Are you coming to the October PCA DE with Kevin?

[wilke3169]

Craig, I am glad Stan was able to sort everything out. I know we mentioned the injectors but it would have been down on the list of things we tried simply because we don't have the equipment to do so. Like you said better left to the experts. No thanks needed. Other than the heat a few days, even the obstacles were not as bad in hindsite.
I am looking forward to taking a drive on your favorite road without the police escort we had in my car. I think he knew the V-1 was screaming as he escorted us.
Robert, I am looking forward to seeing you and the family in a few weeks. Not sure Craig will make it but I will certainly let him answer that one.

Great Job Craig...

Kevin

[mca]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

Craig,

Are you coming to the October PCA DE with Kevin?

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it in October. I am planning on making the trip in February provided that our club can be worked into the calendar at CMP.

[mca]

With only 80 miles on the new engine and everything "seeming" to be in order, I decided to go for a long run today to test it out.

Ran for about 70 miles down a rural road along a national forest. It was a beautiful drive - mix of sun and clouds, 87 degree heat index, 71% humidity. The car performed better than I could have ever imagined. Flawless from start to finish. Engine temps stayed below 9 o'clock despite frequent and fast rpm changes. I even hit some highway stretches over steep bridges in direct sun.

I can't believe it is finally done and there are no more lingering issues.

This is my face .

[sabeo.m]

A big congratulatios! I'm happy to hear that your ride is running like a gem. My new replacement reconditioned rod has been shipped out from EBS, and should have it by this Wednesday. Hopefully in a few weeks I can say the same about mine.

Cheers,
Sabeo.

[Charlie V]

Originally Posted by mca

With only 80 miles on the new engine and everything "seeming" to be in order, I decided to go for a long run today to test it out.

Ran for about 70 miles down a rural road along a national forest. It was a beautiful drive - mix of sun and clouds, 87 degree heat index, 71% humidity. The car performed better than I could have ever imagined. Flawless from start to finish. Engine temps stayed below 9 o'clock despite frequent and fast rpm changes. I even hit some highway stretches over steep bridges in direct sun.

I can't believe it is finally done and there are no more lingering issues.

This is my face .

Congrats!! I've been following your thread and enjoyed the read.

[911 tweaks]

Craig, You are way over due for the positive experiences you are enjoying now !! ENJOY, ENJOY & ENJOY !!
Tell us all now, was it worth the cost and what would you do and NOT do again ??. (you can wait a while to answer this as I don't want to ruin your basking in the shine of car fine times !!)

My best and thx again for the pics & cd zip... It has already helped a lot !!
Bob

[mca]

Originally Posted by 911 tweaks

Craig, You are way over due for the positive experiences you are enjoying now !! ENJOY, ENJOY & ENJOY !!
Tell us all now, was it worth the cost and what would you do and NOT do again ??. (you can wait a while to answer this as I don't want to ruin your basking in the shine of car fine times !!)

My best and thx again for the pics & cd zip... It has already helped a lot !!
Bob

It was certainly worth the cost. Aside from the SSIs and Dansk exhuast I spent about $6800. Local quotes for the rebuild ranged from 12 - 15K. So, yeah, it was certainly worth it.

What I would NOT do again: (great question)

1) Install my interal thermostat without checking to see if it works. It is easy to place it in boiling water on the stove and watch it open. For some reason I overlooked this.

2) Install my fuel injectors without bench testing.

3) Make multiple trips to the local parts store to buy brake cleaner. I must have used 50+ cans.

4) Do a rebuild during the summer months. The heat takes is toll on your body and mind.

5) Use mix and match exhaust studs. Should have done it right the first time and purchased new studs. Shouldn't have used anti-seize on the stud threads that go into the heads - just use it on threads where the nuts screw on.

6) Install pressure plate bolts without washers. Had to go back and redo.

7) Stress. In retrospect, I think I stressed too much. Lots of sleepless nights.

I will likely add more to this list.

I would absolutely do it again and imagine that I could do it in half the time. Really, the bulk of the work was cleaning parts.

Despite all of the hurdles the entire process was a blast. Rebuilding a 911 engine for the first time teaches you to be humble, to have patience, persistance, courage, and endurance. It builds character and sharpens your skills that apply to all areas of your life.

Just like your job, your marriage, your relationships with friends ... it all takes work and you will encounter obstacles, highs, and lows. You can't cave to the pressures or run away from the obstacels, you have to work through them.

It sounds corny, but it was much more than just rebuilding an engine.

[911 tweaks]

Craig... sounds like you had a life experience you will never forget AND you learned a lot!!
Great write up and thanks again for sharing all of your work with the + and the - points along the way.
Now, go enjoy your ride and I always ask thread starters to try and post back updates on how it is going so we all can see what worked well and not so well.

Like any mechanical item, there will be issue(s) at some point, so don't get bummed if & when they raise their ugly heads... this a car afterall... but it sounds like you have a great attitude and view of the whole process so with that, go ride the snot out of it as it was made for and enjoy. AND wear a seat belt!!
Thanks again Craig for the journey!!
Bob

[mca]

UPDATE ON ENGINE TEMPERATURES

Today I finished my heat back date. Previously I had been running with SSIs but my fan housing outlets were blocked off - so no air was moving through the SSIs.

Initially my temps were around 230-240.

My engine temps were vastly improved after getting the car properly tuned - got to 9 o'clock on the gauge on 90 degree day with lots of humidity.

But today I saw more drastic changes.

I noticed about a 20-25 degree drop in engine temps. It was only 80 degrees and low humidity but the temp needle stayed at the FIRST white line. And I drove the snot out of it. Seriously. On the highway and in traffic for nearly two hours.

Never seen that before on my 911.

So I guess that Grady Clay was right when he said that air needs to move through the exchangers in order to keep them from acting as a heat sink.

Then again ... I might have a car that is sensitive to humidity and anything over 80 degrees. Hopefully we will see another hot day so I can test it further.