Do I need to rebuild my front calipers? 1980 sc

[therotman]

Looks pretty bad to me, the unexperienced eye.

I am currently replacing my front pads and rotors to attempt to cure a front left rubbing noise that comes and goes from what appeared to be a warped rotor.




Also, Do I need compressed air (which I do not have) to rebuild them? I have plenty of time and patience......not as many tools.

[tonythetarga]

Hi,
It looks to me that the rubber dust boots are mostly gone,particularly in your second photo. I would rebuild them as it is a fairly easy job. You will need compressed air to pop out the caliper pistons. If you wanted to do it the easy way you could just buy new (rebuilt) calipers at Autozone for about $70 a side and hand in your old ones. Quick, clean and away you go. The rebuild kits are only about $15 a side.
The tricky part of the rebuild is getting the pistons inserted with the 20 degree angle tool you'd have to make. (I make a fresh one out of cardboard each time). Do a search on caliper rebuilding and see some pictures and tips about removing the pistons.

edit: reference this Tech article: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_caliper_rebuild/911_caliper_rebuild.htm

[DanielDudley]

I would say you need to rebuild those, esp if you clean them up and the seals look shot. I think that there is a good write up on this somewhere, with pictures.

Compressed air can be a help to get the pistons out, but is not 100% needed.

[Doug Steinel]

Compressed air is useful in getting the piston out. However, you don't need a big compressor. I used the compressor I fill beach balls with. It puts out enough pressure to pop the piston out by shooting the air in the hole where the brake line inserts.

[tharbert]

I used a block of wood 1x2 to keep the pistons from shooting out of the caliper too quickly. It's amazing with how much force they exit the caliper with...it'll startle you. I used the wood to check their speed and make sure both come out evenly.

[djpateman]

Pros use air very carefully with calipers; calipers are like opposing cannons when air is used. I use a custom made bar in place of the rotor so that the pistons are almost, but not quite, out of the bore. I prefer hydraulics however, and have made up a special pedal cluster plus master cylinder to for reluctant piston out; sticky pistons almost always require hydraulics. You could just leave the calipers on the car to force a piston out; a bit messy, but not bad if you are prepared. I'm not sure how you will cap the brake lines on the car while the caliper is off. Pinching the lines can be risky unless you are prepared to replace the lines after. Most rubber lines need replacing every 15 years or so anyway. Never let the MC reservoir drain completely or you will have trouble bleeding.

My personal reccomendation is to send calipers to Eric Shea @ PMB for complete rebuilding.

[vash]

you have to use a block of wood to keep the pistons from shooting out. one ALWAYS comes out first leaving you a big gaping hole for all the air to shoot out, making the second piston stuck in place. the idea is to control the pistons shooting out. pop them both out far enough to still hold air, and give you enough room to grab them one by one.

i use a bike pump that i cut the nozzle off. i bet i can still crack a finger. using an air compressor seems crazy. my handle for my wire brush is the perfect thickness.

i would rebuild both of those in the pic.

[KTL]

Do you need to rebuild your calipers? ABSOLUTELY. Those things look awful. The rubbing you heard is likely a sticking piston that caused your rotor and pad problem.

Just like the others said, compressed air is not a must. I find it very dangerous. Fluid pressure is better to remove them. I've seen people use grease guns too.

[Superman]

In my humble view, your calipers should routinely be rebuilt about every two years. At least every two years. Calipers and CV joints are parts that many people would not need to replace if they cleaned and repacked them periodically.

My caliper rebuild method is to leave them connected to the brake lines, and use the brake system hydraulic pressure to push the pistons out for rebuilding. It is, in my view, both quicker and easier and safer than removing the calipers and using air pressure to push the pistons out. Once caliper at a time. One piston at a time. Using a C-clamp vise grip to contain the piston you do not want to remove.

Oh and one more thing. Well, two. Coat the rubber parts with silicon grease (Dow Corning 111 or 112). Caliper rebuilding is actually pretty easy.

[Flieger]

Get those calipers to Eric Shea at PMB Performance in Sandy Utah right away.

[therotman]

Great info everyone- I am ordering the caliper rebuild kit and will get the pistons out using the brake system to push them out.

Stay tuned- I'm sure I will have more questions. I don't understand the 20 degree template I need to make, but hopefully it will make sense when I get to that point.

[vash]

using the brake system to push out the piston? so if you were to rebuild all four corners, you need to move about the car, partially pushing out each piston? is brake fluid popping about?

i like the bike pump. i can take all the calipers off, and take everything out into my backyard, AWAY from any auto paint job, and do each caliper separately. i am absolutely anal about not getting brake juice onto any surface that can be damaged. once i crack open the fluild system, i take everything away from the car. no way, i move back and forth, in and out of my car. too much risk.

[KTL]

The key to keeping brake calipers from getting like that is frequent flushing of the caliper with water when washing the car. It prevents the brake dust and road debris from building-up inside the pad box. For someone who drives his/her car only on the street and does little maintenance, a once a year removal of the wheels and brake pads to clean inside the pad boxes goes a long way towards preventing stuck pistons.

I appreciate Super's recommendation of rebuilding every 2 years, since i'm anal about brake maintenance, but IMO it's overkill for a street car. Regular cleaning will prevent the problem we're seeing. Porsche's scheduled maintenance suggests flushing of the brake fluid every 2 years. Re-sealing of the calipers more frequently than the fluid flush is not necessary if your brake system is fairly well maintainted. Heck, there's cars on the road with brakes that have NEVER been rebuilt. My '92 Laser is one of them and they still operate well after 106K miles. Still, I won't disregard the fact that brakes are one of the most neglected systems on cars by most people.

I think the problem with these brakes, despite how great they are, is the German pads dust so much and also the fixed caliper design confines the pistons, contact area of the pads and rotors so well, the dust & debris does not escape easily. Floating calipers typically have more open space for the debris to escape.

Who is this Eric Shea that is so highly regarded? What does he do that the average Joe can't do to recondition the calipers. And like Tony G said, for those who aren't comfortable reconditioning the calipers, or don't want to waste the time, $70 for remanufactured calipers is a steal of a deal.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by KTL

Who is this Eric Shea that is so highly regarded? What does he do that the average Joe can't do to recondition the calipers. And like Tony G said, for those who aren't comfortable reconditioning the calipers, or don't want to waste the time, $70 for remanufactured calipers is a steal of a deal

[therotman]

/\

How much does that cost?

Originally Posted by vash

using the brake system to push out the piston? so if you were to rebuild all four corners, you need to move about the car, partially pushing out each piston? is brake fluid popping about?

i like the bike pump. i can take all the calipers off, and take everything out into my backyard, AWAY from any auto paint job, and do each caliper separately. i am absolutely anal about not getting brake juice onto any surface that can be damaged. once i crack open the fluild system, i take everything away from the car. no way, i move back and forth, in and out of my car. too much risk.

I don't have a bike pump- The only thing I have that blows air is a detachable pump for an air mattress that doesn't have much power. I guess I can try that with the first caliper and see if it is strong enough to push it out.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by vash

using the brake system to push out the piston? so if you were to rebuild all four corners, you need to move about the car, partially pushing out each piston? is brake fluid popping about?

i like the bike pump. i can take all the calipers off, and take everything out into my backyard, AWAY from any auto paint job, and do each caliper separately. i am absolutely anal about not getting brake juice onto any surface that can be damaged. once i crack open the fluild system, i take everything away from the car. no way, i move back and forth, in and out of my car. too much risk.

Yes, taking them off and doing this on a picnic table has certain advantages.

In my system (and I'm not the only one), you avoid dealing with brake lines and flare nut wrenches. Also, using air pressure to push the pistons out is frightening. I have at times needed 100+ psi in order to get them out. When they do come out, the BANG is scary. The pistons are no match for the pressure of the hydraulic system. When they do pop out, brake fluid only goes straight down. When air is used, it sends brake fluid out in a spray. With the hydraulic method, the pistons do not POP out. They gently fall out.

The rears are easiest. When you have removed the brake line clip and the two caliper bolts, the hard line slips backward into the boss on the trailing arm, and the caliper sits neatly on the trailing arm while you work. No need to suspend it with a coat hanger.

I raise the entire car, put it on jackstands, and just do one caliper at a time. Heck, regardless of what method you use, you will do one caliper at a time. I don't have four hands.

[Superman]

Therotman, one more small tip: The kit comes with two rubber "things" for each piston (two pistons per caliper). One thing is the boot you have photographed. It is sometimes not easy to slip on, but I expect you will have no trouble. The other "thing" is the truly functional part. It is a square-section o-ring that goes into a groove inside the caliper bore. You will have more trouble getting the old one out than getting the new one in, even though the old one comes out easily. By far the easiest method is to use a curve awl, or perhaps just a pin or needle, and "spear" it.

The angled template is easy also. You can cut it out of a piece of cardboard if you have a protractor you can use to find the correct angle.

Piece of cake.

[Flieger]

In response to therotman,

I bought newly restored S calipers from Eric Shea. They had been re-anodized, had new stainless steel pistons installed, new stainless steel crossover lines, etc.

I then sold my old calipers back to him as cores. The 2 sets of calipers were the same specification of Ate aluminum S caliper for the 1971 model year.

His price was great and the work was excellent. S calipers have a higher market value than A or M calipers. The brakes work smoothly and forcefully. They can be modulated better and the pedal is positioned better for throttle blips on downshifts.

I will PM you with the price I paid.

[vash]

wow. those eric calipers are super clean.

personally, i like the function of my car more. i have rebuilt my calipers. it is maybe my 3rd time. i can fly. i am super anal on the bores, pistons, and seals. the outsides? forget about it. i dont care what it looks like. that is way too much bling. form follows function

[Flieger]

The shiny, clear anodizing is factory specification. Eric stripped and re-anodized these calipers during the rebuild. These are the second generation of Aluminum S calipers, with the X in the circle on the casting and the "winged" piston housing areas. The later S calipers got a yellow anodizing (zinc chromate?). The smooth surface is much easier to keep clean by regularly wiping off brake dust and occasional washing, which all calipers need to prevent dust build up and corrosion from clogging up the action of the pistons and pads.

I am not into bling, either but they are really nice.