Smallest Trailer to haul a 911 - Page 2

Flyin Brian · 07-14-2009, 01:49 PM

You only want about 10% tongue weight. If you notice, the axles in the pictures are positioned toward the rear. Search the web for trailer building sites and you will find some ideas.

There are 2 types of brakes; axle brakes and break-away brakes. Axle brakes are a must and sufficient on one of the two axles for an open trailer. They are controlled via an interface with the car. Surge brakes are used in some applications, but are not optimal, nor legal for car haulers in some states.

The break-away is a safety feature that operates on a separate battery, when the trailer become un-coupled, a pin is pulled, sending current to the brakes and locking them.

donporfi · 07-15-2009, 09:01 AM

Thanks for your answers.
Can you explain how do the trailer brakes work ?

Flyin Brian · 07-15-2009, 10:19 AM

Trailer brakes are electric and tap into the cars system. U-Haul can provide the installation service, if you are in the US, or any travel trailer dealer could do the same.

Basically, a harness is wired into your vehicle that sends power to a controller which modulates your trailer brakes based on the level of braking you apply to the vehicle. The controller adjusts gain(level of pressure) and sync (how quickly the trailer brakes react to the car input). These outputs need to be adjusted based on the trailer load.

donporfi · 10:52 AM

Flyin Brian
Thanks

I searched in the internet and found how trailer brakes work.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Most new SUV and pickups that are capable of towing come oem w/ a harness prewired especially so w/ a tow package.

Ford even offers the controller built in to the dash. Most others you need to wire from the controller to the existing oem chassis harness, for some installs there is a separate adapter harness.

On my Toyota the chassis was prewired, so I bought a controller(Prodigy P3) and adapter harness, the controller is mounted to the dash and the adapter harness plugs in at both ends(the controller and a chassis socket next to the parking brake foot control).

175K911 · 07-15-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyin Brian

You only want about 10% tongue weight. If you notice, the axles in the pictures are positioned toward the rear. Search the web for trailer building sites and you will find some ideas.

There are 2 types of brakes; axle brakes and break-away brakes. Axle brakes are a must and sufficient on one of the two axles for an open trailer. They are controlled via an interface with the car. Surge brakes are used in some applications, but are not optimal, nor legal for car haulers in some states.

The break-away is a safety feature that operates on a separate battery, when the trailer become un-coupled, a pin is pulled, sending current to the brakes and locking them.

In fact, many states requires trailer brakes for any trailer over 2,000 lbs. (Ohio- 2,000; Illinois-3500; CA- 1500.) False economy to not get brakes on both axles too. Like a car, a trailer can't have too much brake capability. And the brake controller in the tow vehicle will be adjustable to set the correct braking performance for varyng loads. And as Flyin Brian noted, the break away setup is also a requirement in some states.

If you open this website, and scroll to the bottom, you'll see the 2009 listings of the individual state requirements. Handy to have:
http://trailerboats.com/images/elements/1863199_Tow_RatingsPDF.pdf

GH85Carrera · GH85Carrera's Garage

For trailers & Porsches, you always want more brakes. A set of Big Reds would look great on a trailer

Flyin Brian · 07-16-2009, 06:18 AM

Neat idea. they operate in a different manor, being hydraulic, but it would be a cool engineering project to make work.

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

For trailers & Porsches, you always want more brakes. A set of Big Reds would look great on a trailer

Thats not true at all. The modern e-brake controllers are not only adjustable for load but also proportional in operation. They can be adjusted for 0 to max load and the brakes only work as hard as they need to to keep up w/ the tow vehicle braking

OldTee · 07-16-2009, 07:36 AM

tow dolly. ***** to load, easy tow, front pretty close to the road. Hit 90mph once and will never do it again. best towing speed is 65-70. beats leaving the car in ohio when you live in MD.

Pete000 · 07-16-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Most new SUV and pickups that are capable of towing come oem w/ a harness prewired especially so w/ a tow package.

Ford even offers the controller built in to the dash. Most others you need to wire from the controller to the existing oem chassis harness, for some installs there is a separate adapter harness.

On my Toyota the chassis was prewired, so I bought a controller(Prodigy P3) and adapter harness, the controller is mounted to the dash and the adapter harness plugs in at both ends(the controller and a chassis socket next to the parking brake foot control).

+1 on the Prodigy brake controler ! I love the adjustability.

175K911 · 07-16-2009, 03:24 PM

With all this discussion of trailers, let's not forget the tow vehicle too. A lightweight rig like mine (2500 lb car, 1100 trailer, 350 lbs of wheels and tires on the tire rack, misc tools and parts 250 lbs) is up to 4200 lbs. This requires a Class III receiver, a good tow vehicle, etc. Not going to pull this with a Honda Pilot (3500-4500 rating depending on year) or a lot of minivans.

Need a good hitch. A simple 2000 lb hitch that you get for $100 from Autozone won't be legal or safe. Will need a good receiver if the tow vehicle isn't already so equipped.

Pete000 · 07-16-2009, 04:35 PM

I am right on the limit on my Pilot at 4500 lbs. My hitch and receiver is rated at 7500 as is the trailer itself. I don't load any extras and have no trouble towing the 911. I am very impressed with it's performance towing.

stevemfr · 07-17-2009, 03:49 AM

Don't want to go too far OT here, but where are the advantages to electric brakes over surge brakes?

Most of the trailers under 3.5 metric tons GVW here use surge brakes - and not even hydraulic surge brakes, but cable activated. I have a tandem axle car trailer rated at 2t set up like this and I've towed with my carpenter's 3.5t trailer quite often (loaded to around 3.6t once or twice according to the scales at the quarry I was getting gravel from) which has this setup as well. No probs, easy to drive. My tow vehicle is a Range Rover (2.2t curb weight).

I understand the adjustability in electric brakes w/controllers - but is this even necessary? Generally boat trailers have surge brakes - even very big boat trailers with big, heavy boats being towed by vehicles lighter than the trailer. What are Europeans missing out on? Seems to me the KISS-principle speaks very much for the setup on my trailer...

Bill Verburg · Bill Verburg's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevemfr

Don't want to go too far OT here, but where are the advantages to electric brakes over surge brakes?

Most of the trailers under 3.5 metric tons GVW here use surge brakes - and not even hydraulic surge brakes, but cable activated. I have a tandem axle car trailer rated at 2t set up like this and I've towed with my carpenter's 3.5t trailer quite often (loaded to around 3.6t once or twice according to the scales at the quarry I was getting gravel from) which has this setup as well. No probs, easy to drive. My tow vehicle is a Range Rover (2.2t curb weight).

I understand the adjustability in electric brakes w/controllers - but is this even necessary? Generally boat trailers have surge brakes - even very big boat trailers with big, heavy boats being towed by vehicles lighter than the trailer. What are Europeans missing out on? Seems to me the KISS-principle speaks very much for the setup on my trailer...

For one thing surge brakes are a PIA when backing up

dalematt · 07-17-2009, 05:59 AM

Electric brakes work whenever the tow vehicles brakes are used and there is also a "runaway" safety function to engage the brakes if the trailer were to come disconnected from the tow vehicle. A lot depends on your tow vehicle; if you're pulling it with a 924 (not recommended) then you might have to back the car onto the trailer. Also the smaller the pulling vehicle the more important the brakes are. I pull mine with a Ford F-250 and the difference of forwards or backwards would be negligible. But then my trailer also weighs 3500 lbs. empty.

I use a 16' x 8.5' enclosed Haulmark to haul 911's or whatever other "treasure" I've come upon in the classifieds. It works great for me. It's about the smallest real enclosed car trailer (that I've seen). With the car in the trailer there is about 2 feet extra space, one in front and one in back or whatever.... I considered an open trailer but as much as I don't use it, it would have been an eyesore and a wasted space in my yard. This enclosed trailer serves a dual purpose; when I'm not hauling cars it holds all my lawn mowers, motorcycle and other junk that would otherwise clutter up my garage. It is the perfect storage shed.

Dale

stevemfr · 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

For one thing surge brakes are a PIA when backing up

The brakes release automatically when backing. Sometimes - usually when the trailer is already turned in relation to the vehicle - you can feel light pressure that suddenly releases when starting to back up - that's all though. I've got a pretty long driveway. I do quite a bit of backing with the trailer both heavy and unloaded.

stevemfr · 07-17-2009, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalematt

Electric brakes work whenever the tow vehicles brakes are used and there is also a "runaway" safety function to engage the brakes if the trailer were to come disconnected from the tow vehicle. A lot depends on your tow vehicle; if you're pulling it with a 924 (not recommended) then you might have to back the car onto the trailer. Also the smaller the pulling vehicle the more important the brakes are. I pull mine with a Ford F-250 and the difference of forwards or backwards would be negligible. But then my trailer also weighs 3500 lbs. empty.

All trailers here are required to have a ripcord which applies the brakes if the trailer breaks away from the tow vehicle. Most of the time (at least on the ones I've seen) there is a handbrake lever that manually pulls the brake cables. This lever is extended below the fulcrum which is where the ripcord attaches.

As far as size/weight differences between the trailer and the tow vehicle go: I'd venture to guess that the weight difference between the average European vehicle and the average trailer load is greater than in the US. No pickups here and small cars - still the same heavy junk to schlepp around though. I can see the difference causing all sorts of safety issues in towing - just not with the brakes. Kinda like a little person applying manual brakes vs. a big person.

ja78911sc · 07-17-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalematt

Electric brakes work whenever the tow vehicles brakes are used and there is also a "runaway" safety function to engage the brakes if the trailer were to come disconnected from the tow vehicle. A lot depends on your tow vehicle; if you're pulling it with a 924 (not recommended) then you might have to back the car onto the trailer. Also the smaller the pulling vehicle the more important the brakes are. I pull mine with a Ford F-250 and the difference of forwards or backwards would be negligible. But then my trailer also weighs 3500 lbs. empty.

I use a 16' x 8.5' enclosed Haulmark to haul 911's or whatever other "treasure" I've come upon in the classifieds. It works great for me. It's about the smallest real enclosed car trailer (that I've seen). With the car in the trailer there is about 2 feet extra space, one in front and one in back or whatever.... I considered an open trailer but as much as I don't use it, it would have been an eyesore and a wasted space in my yard. This enclosed trailer serves a dual purpose; when I'm not hauling cars it holds all my lawn mowers, motorcycle and other junk that would otherwise clutter up my garage. It is the perfect storage shed.

Well, this thread has bounced around quite a bit so I will ask this question.

Dale,
Do you have a difficult time strapping in the front of your car in such a small enclosed trailer? How do you get around the front of the car to strap in the front left side?
Thanks,
Jim

Dale

dalematt · 07-17-2009, 08:06 AM

Plenty of room to walk all the way around the car inside if you park it right. It's 8' wide on the inside, a 911 isn't nearly that. You just don't want to eat too big of a breakfast before you get in/out of the car..... I would take a nice picture for you but all you'd see is my lawn mower etc. right now....

Yeah, amazing how quickly threads grow, exponentially.....