Yet another 'What's this SC worth?' thread

[white99c2]

SC's will last 300K miles, you'll have to rebuild the motor a couple of times to get to that 300K miles.

[AshEvan]

Originally Posted by logan2z

As a buyer, I'd love them to be right But I'm not seeing anything decent at all for under $10K. Most with the condition/mileage of the '83 SC I saw are in the $13-$15K asking region. Again, that's Bay Area pricing which may be out of whack with the rest of the country, but I seem to be seeing similar pricing in other states as well.

I live in SoCal and I agree with you. While it is a buyers market, most P-Cars (SC) under $10K and under, are really $15K -$17K to make them right. There are great deals out there but you need to make sure you do your homework and PPI if you are not familiar with what to look for. PPI always worth doing for peace of mind. For me, I have always been patient and look for really well maintained and documented cars purchasing from original or 2nd owner.

Many "frankenstein monsters" out there and no guarantee it can ever be made right. In addition, down time incurred for requried repairs is another loss of use value. Your timing is ideal to find the right car at the right price and the search is half the fun. Focus on buying and paying for current owners good maintenance and upgrades as opposed to inheriting problems out of the gate that really dampen the whole experience.

Just my two cents . . . .

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by logan2z

Did I mention that it had the Carrera tensioner upgrade?

I would have to say that the owner falls into the 'minor enthusiast' camp. Loves the car, does the required maintenance, but doesn't spend his spare time on Pelican or Rennlist (probably hasn't even heard of them), probably isn't a PCA member, etc. So I wouldn't expect a lot of upgrades or a rebuild unless his mechanic said it was absolutely necessary. The car has been serviced at a respected Porsche indy mechanic in NorCal and I've spoken to them and they said the car was mechanically very sound. Of course I would have the car PPI'd at another excellent indy Porsche shop here in the Bay Area before I'd make an offer to purchase.

The seller is currently asking $13.5K. He seems pretty reasonable and would probably be willing to negotiate. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't take $8K, however

I have looked at a few cars in the last year, and on several it turned out that there was pitting on the cam lobes. This is an expensive repair on a 911, so a PPI that includes a lower valve cover removal is vital, even on a car with no oil usage or drips. A 13 K car can rapidly run to late model Carrera territory in costs accrued, so be careful. Guys have a valve adjustment performed, and the next thing you know the car is for sale.

Also consider that a Carrera does have more punch than a stock SC, if this is an important consideration for you. They are also having the cam issues, so buyer beware.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by McLovin

The best indicator of value is current asking prices, and current actual sales prices. Did you check the links above?

If he's asking $13.5K, he'll take $10K if he has any sense and really is interested in selling. A 140,000 mile, worn out SC isn't worth more than that.

It gets harder to turn them down at 10 K, that's for sure. Waving cash, and being willing to walk away will sway some sellers and offend others. But if you are willing to walk away, you won't care if the seller is offended.

Get a good car, and you won't be the guy putting 5 K into it, and being offered ten. Or be the guy who pays less initially, and puts money into a car that you can own and drive as you improve it.

It's all good.

[Vereeken]

Please send all likwise 10k USD SC's out of the SF bay area to my address in Belgium .

I will arrange for a large tow truck and oversees shipping immediately as soon as I have a truck full of them.

I never understood how to make a killing doing something but now I know.

Excuse me while I go prepare myself for unlimited wealth.

Kr

Michel

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by azrob226

SC's will last 300K miles, you'll have to rebuild the motor a couple of times to get to that 300K miles.

Not true. '78-81 models might need a partial tear down for cylinder head studs, and any SC might need camshaft replacement. Studs are simply a "repair" ($4K) vs a "rebuild" ($15K). Cams can actually be done with the engine in the car, if one has semi-masochistic tendencies.

My '82 currently has 204,000 miles, and has had nothing but cams and Carrera Tensioners. I've disassembled SC bottom ends at well past 200K miles, only to find them in perfect condition.

[logan2z]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

Not true. '78-81 models might need a partial tear down for cylinder head studs, and any SC might need camshaft replacement. Studs are simply a "repair" ($4K) vs a "rebuild" ($15K). Cams can actually be done with the engine in the car, if one has semi-masochistic tendencies.

My '82 currently has 204,000 miles, and has had nothing but cams and Carrera Tensioners. I've disassembled SC bottom ends at well past 200K miles, only to find them in perfect condition.

Thanks for the info Pete, that confirms what I've been told by other respected air-cooled p-car specialists.

[Halm]

The other thing to keep in mind is that to make those kinds of miles, the car must be meticulously maintained. I doubt we are going to find one of them in the $10k-$15 price range.

[DDD]

As someone who would be willing to part with my 1983 SC for the right price (but too much of a fence-sitter to actually take the steps to put it up for sale), I would add that I think $10K is fair. I've done a lot of casual looking around in attempting to price mine, and $13.5K seems way high, whereas $8K seems low for a clean car. There is a lot of junk out there. My car sounds pretty much identical to the one described, though I am in MN, where prices may be lower. My car is clean, stock, original color, second owner, but not perfect, and I would take $10K, but not a penny less. Most people who can afford a toy like this don't need the $ badly enough to take $7-8K for it unless they are desperate for cash due to job loss or something. The "toy" they can replace it with for $8K simply won't compare. My $.02.

[Befree]

Maybe my math and logic is wrong as a buyer but if I look at a 1980 SC with 170k miles and the buyers wants $11k (kind of firm) and it has a broken head stud and needs a rebuild for around 4k that car is worth $7k to me...

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by Befree

Maybe my math and logic is wrong as a buyer but if I look at a 1980 SC with 170k miles and the buyers wants $11k (kind of firm) and it has a broken head stud and needs a rebuild for around 4k that car is worth $7k to me...

And if it needs paint, and the seats re-covered, another $7K, you expect the seller to give you the car?

[Befree]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

And if it needs paint, and the seats re-covered, another $7K, you expect the seller to give you the car?

Of course not, paint and a seat recover is not an essential item and can be done down the line. A broke head stud which cost me $4k right out of the gate is in my opinion a real problem and need to be addressed and reflected in the price. Did I mention the gear box needing rebuild soon?

To follow your train of though I will add up all the items which are wrong with the car, broken head stud, (and who knows what else is wrong with the engine), front tie rods, tires, bad rotors, tires and after the sale I will send him a bill for the money he owns me......

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

And if it needs paint, and the seats re-covered, another $7K, you expect the seller to give you the car?

For an SC that I intended to keep, fix as necessary, and drive long term (i.e., spend money on and keep), then yes, pretty much.

Even if you got the car for free, a 150K mile 911 needing paint, interior, suspension, and with broken head studs is not a great deal, if you intend on paying others to fix all of those things.

[McLovin]

BTW, on a 150K mile SC, if you had to replace head studs, and you have the heads off the car anyways, doesn't it make sense to also replace the valve guides and do a valve job?

[Befree]

I guess all I am saying is that there are sellers out there who buy these cars already with high mileage, throw a sound system in, drive the crap out of the car for 2 to 3 years, do almost nothing on the car besides when they are forced into repairs because the car is not running, change brake pads and leave the scarred rotors as they are and so on... and then they think they have a gem of a car when they sell it and want top dollars for what you people call a "roller" and is worth $5k.
Now why would you defend someone like this and think the buyer wants it all for free???

[yelcab1]

Mine is a 200Kmiles SC, recent transmission rebuilt, recent valve job done, all steel studs, solid bottom end, new chains, Carrera tensioner update, no oil leaks, no ripped interior, very good paint job, and I would not get more than 10K for it if I want to sell it.

And I don't want to sell it.

[johndglynn]

I recently bought an SC in the Bay Area. It has done some miles and is not without wear n tear body cosmetics to deal with (not that bothered to be honest) but it is absolutely rust free with a superb engine and SSIs etc. I looked for a few weeks to find mine - wasn't that difficult and I am 5500 miles away. I don't see this as anywhere near $13K, I paid well under 10 for mine.

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by Befree

Of course not, paint and a seat recover is not an essential item and can be done down the line. A broke head stud which cost me $4k right out of the gate is in my opinion a real problem and need to be addressed and reflected in the price. Did I mention the gear box needing rebuild soon?

Add another $4K - now the seller has to pay you to take it from his driveway!

To follow your train of though I will add up all the items which are wrong with the car, broken head stud, (and who knows what else is wrong with the engine), front tie rods, tires, bad rotors, tires and after the sale I will send him a bill for the money he owns me......

Good luck with that! Especially if you bill him twice for tires...

It's all about negotiating, isn't it?

[johndglynn]

Originally Posted by Befree

Maybe my math and logic is wrong as a buyer but if I look at a 1980 SC with 170k miles and the buyers wants $11k (kind of firm) and it has a broken head stud and needs a rebuild for around 4k that car is worth $7k to me...

Your maths seem sensible to me; stick to your guns is my advice. Though it is not just a matter of taking the 4 off the 11, as you are deriving some benefit that has to be factored in.

My rule was nothing rusty and the rest negotiable. I did not find it difficult to locate and agree a decent price on exactly what I was after.

I don't think there is anything under $5K worth buying, looked at a few and not worth even emailing. Stay between 7 and 11 and deal them up.

[FinallyGotOne]

In my opinion an SC is different than non SC cars. It drives different and feels different on the road. I would not let my SC go for less than 17,000. It has c-chain tensioners, pop-off valve, short shift, (though some do not like em) 17 inch cup wheels. 74 911 OEM exhaust and muffler and is a daily driver with over 150,000 miles on it. And it's a coupe. I'd only trade it straight for a 964, though i really probably would never let it go. So if you can pick one up for 10,000 that's pretty flipping cheap. But these cars do cost to maintain and keep road worthy. You'll put 4,000 more into that one easy