3.2 Headers

[TT Oversteer]

I've searched all the threads and I'm still left with some questions.

I'm currently running a stock 3.2 with stock heat exchangers, cat bypass and stock muffler with appropriate SW chip. I like it but looking to lose some more weight, gain power and want a little more sound. I can do without heat if the gains are noticable. My main reason for headers is to gain the dual in muffler configuration and its associated flow improvements and to lose weight.

After shopping and reading I have the following questions:

Where do you buy "George's European Racing Headers"? Are they sold by a retail vendor?

Are any of the headers available with an O2 sensor bung for the 3.2 or do you have to weld in your own?

Do all headers require changing the oil lines on the 3.2?

I'm thinking of runnng 1 5/8 headers with an M&K GT3 dual inlet/outlet muffler. It's for a street/track car with stock 3.2 chipped. I want it to be streetable WRT noise and low/midrange but room to grow for cams later.

I like the TRE headers. The collector design looks the same as the Performance Products headers. Are these made by the same supplier?

[gtc]

I am probably going to be in the minority with this statement: stick with your stock HEs and just get a 1in 1out sport muffler. Monty or M&K perhaps.
In my opinion, it's the most streetable option, as well as the best bang for your buck since you already have the bypass and chip.
Since you are in California, I think a trip down to Steve Wong for a custom mapped chip would be another worthwhile investment.

Just my $.02.

[911st]

I agree with Graham for the most part.

Having said that, a set of 1 5/8's with sport muffler will probably get you up to about 5-10 more HP at the last half of the power curve before you shift and take some 20 lbs or so off the rear. Might knock a tenth off on a 2 mile track.

Sticky tires could be good for 5-10 seconds. Stiffer/flatter suspension and alignment for up to the same I would guess.

In Sacramento, such a change will make your life miserable every two years when you have to re-smog.

[Jeff Higgins]

I'll join Graham in his minority position. 3.2 exhaust systems work quite well, and respond well to a simple muffle change. That, and it will be far easier to get it to pass your visual inspection.

If you really must, Smart Racing has the headers.

[pmason]

I just did this year, picked up the george's headers from Steve over at Rennsports, he put in the bung and had them power coated for me. Then attached a M&K 2in2out. Lastly sent the chip back to Steve Wong to reprogram for this set up. Weight and maybe hp was also my goal.

[RarlyL8]

Do you know that Ben and I have collaborated on headers for the 3.2L Carrera?
Steve W chip is needed for max increase.
Shoot me an email if interested and I'll tell you about them and some of the applications they are being used in.
Yes heat will be available soon.

[Walt Fricke]

Rarly - so that's where old 911 parts go when they die! Mockups for projects.

[ALXinNZ]

I Have both (sort of)
cat bypass and SW chip
993 headers modified flanges and just fabbed my own silencers once i took the cats out.

The headers are better even though un equal length. This is purely my opinion and not dyno proven.

They sound way better too
YouTube - Track day fun first timer

[911st]

No one has tested the 993's against the equal length that I have seen. However, one owner did trade his B&B's for 993's and felt the power remaind as strong. I like equal length but the 993 is proven and unmatched of one needs heat.

However, I am beliving the big key is to get away from where the 3.2 merges the two sides togeather. Best to keep the two sides gasses apart tottaly of for as long as possable. That and a primary tube larger than 1.5" seem to be the main points to achive.

Both could in theory be done with the stock headers by keeping the two cylinder banks seperate all the way through the mufflers. If this was done it should match the 993's.

There is some tunning possable by playing with the primary tube lengths on an equal length system. However it may not be very significant with a low overlap stock style cam. Furher, at the peak TQ / HP points we operate the primary tube seems to have to be on the long side to effect tuning in thouse areas.

That seems to have made the B&B and SCargo long tube headers the bench mark's till now. However because of there costs and near equal performance, the Euro George's seem to be the go to system. for racers.

All are great upgrades. It comes down to cost, how important heat is, and smog requirements in trader for that last 10hp out of a stock long block.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by TT Oversteer

Where do you buy "George's European Racing Headers"? Are they sold by a retail vendor?

Are any of the headers available with an O2 sensor bung for the 3.2 or do you have to weld in your own?

Do all headers require changing the oil lines on the 3.2?

I'm thinking of runnng 1 5/8 headers with an M&K GT3 dual inlet/outlet muffler. It's for a street/track car with stock 3.2 chipped. I want it to be streetable WRT noise and low/midrange but room to grow for cams later.

I like the TRE headers. The collector design looks the same as the Performance Products headers. Are these made by the same supplier?

Hi,

I do carry George's headers as thats what we use on the majority of the race engines we build. I can install the O2 sensor, as required. The dyno doesn't lie, these things work very well for most applications and better than most. The muffler and associated plumbing is an integral part of the whole system and everything must be correctly done to see the potential gains.

These are mild steel and should be coated (inside & outside) with a ceramic-metallic material (like Cermichrome) for maximum longevity and we offer this service as well.

Some headers do require the early oil lines so that depends on the configuration of which ones you choose.

Contact me directly for further information. I do have a new set that just came back from being coated.

[TT Oversteer]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

Hi,

I do carry George's headers as thats what we use on the majority of the race engines we build. I can install the O2 sensor, as required. The dyno doesn't lie, these things work very well for most applications and better than most. The muffler and associated plumbing is an integral part of the whole system and everything must be correctly done to see the potential gains.

These are mild steel and should be coated (inside & outside) with a ceramic-metallic material (like Cermichrome) for maximum longevity and we offer this service as well.

Some headers do require the early oil lines so that depends on the configuration of which ones you choose.

Contact me directly for further information. I do have a new set that just came back from being coated.

Thanks, all, for the good info.

Steve, which header configuration does not require different oil lines? Which muffler(s) would you recommend for use with headers that will make this mod worthwhile yet tolerable on the street?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by TT Oversteer

Thanks, all, for the good info.

Steve, which header configuration does not require different oil lines? Which muffler(s) would you recommend for use with headers that will make this mod worthwhile yet tolerable on the street?

My pleasure.

I don't use the Bursch headers so I won't swear to it, but I don't think the oil lines need to be changed for those things.

Call me on the muffler issue as thats a complex subject.

[Jack Olsen]

For what it's worth, threads from guys who installed unclad headers on their street/track cars and are now trying to figure out ways to get heat/defrost come up on a regular basis, here. The answer pretty much always ends up as: sell the headers and get SSIs, B&Bs, or 993 short headers -- all of which also let you have heat.

Plus, smog -- which means you're taking it all off every two years. In my opinion, the benefit is pretty minor, relative to the expense and hassle.

For an unregistered track car, sure. You go for every hundredth and smog isn't an issue.

[ShakinJoe]

If you can live without heat go with headers and a good collector at the rear you WILL notice the difference. We do not need heat in Florida but I doubt Sacramento will offere heat night and day.

If you want heat....take Jack's advice above this post.

[cliyde]

FWIW, after debating on which header route to go, I opted for a set of Brian's (RarlyL8) with an M&K dual in/out. As I understand it, the headers are scant 5-6lbs ea. (correct me if I'm wrong) and have optional bolt-on heat exchangers. Of course, the M&K is faily light-weight too compared with a stock Bischoff.

I really love the sound of my current 1in/out M&K so that was another deciding factor in going with Brian's setup. All in all, it was a good package deal for my needs. I'm hoping it will be shipped out soon so I can report back to the boards with installation and dyno results!!!

[TT Oversteer]

Originally Posted by cliyde

FWIW, after debating on which header route to go, I opted for a set of Brian's (RarlyL8) with an M&K dual in/out. As I understand it, the headers are scant 5-6lbs ea. (correct me if I'm wrong) and have optional bolt-on heat exchangers. Of course, the M&K is faily light-weight too compared with a stock Bischoff.

I really love the sound of my current 1in/out M&K so that was another deciding factor in going with Brian's setup. All in all, it was a good package deal for my needs. I'm hoping it will be shipped out soon so I can report back to the boards with installation and dyno results!!!

Brian has told me his headers weigh 7lbs. each and do not require replacement of the stock 3.2 oil lines.

Still debating the cost/benefit of headers and a dual in/out M&K for a stock 3.2. Certainly the weight savings and increased flow are plusses but they are to be weighed against the cost and sacrificing heat.

Cliyde, let me know if you want to sell your single in/out M&K as I may still decide to go that route.

[zzwhm]

I went from SSIs to 1 5/8 Buckley headers on my stock '87 Carrera. We did back to back dyno tests. Here's the thread with the dyno results

Sneak Peek of New Stainless Steel Headers

[BGCarrera32]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Yes heat will be available soon.

That's what you said in December of '09.

[RarlyL8]

That's what you said in December of '09.

That is correct. The prototype was finished in October of 2009. There have been a series of agonizing delays from the company that is building them for me. Layoffs, slow downs, equipment problems, you name it. Things are tough for everyone right now so I try to remain patient. The latest word (last week) was that the blanks have been laser cut and will ship to me on Monday. I then have to bend them and do final quality checks.
Right now I have over a dozen clients waiting on their heat exchangers so I'll be on it hard once I receive the blanks.

Yes the headers weigh ~6.5lb each.

Best bang for the buck does not apply with my products. Value is what you get. Best bang for the buck would be mild steel with ugly welds bent by Billy Bob's Muffler Shop for $300 a set. Mine are extreme light weight performance designed aircraft quality welded 321 stainless mandrel bends with merge collectors and a no questions asked warranty. They will be the last set you ever have to buy.
The next phase in development will be to make them adjustable step headers with adapters for modifying existing units.

[911st]

That is a very interesting thread!

Post 30 is great for seeing how much HP each upgrade on a 3.2 makes.

Originally Posted by zzwhm

I went from SSIs to 1 5/8 Buckley headers on my stock '87 Carrera. We did back to back dyno tests. Here's the thread with the dyno results

Sneak Peek of New Stainless Steel Headers

Looks like a good example of a 'long' tube header.