'79 SC - Thoughts on AC delete

[thefaculty]

I'm considering my AC options. I got my first 911 last week. A.C. is installed but not connected (no relay or fuse and no belt). I have no previous experience with 911s!

I have read a ton of threads here about how to delete, everyone's opinion on whether to or not seems divided. So my question is this:

Should I throw in a new relay and fuse and put a belt in and see what happens. I assume I'd then need to recharge etc. and potentially troubleshoot a world of problems from a non-operational AC. Or should I save myself a world of pain about at least 40lbs of dead weight and pull it completely and if I did would it have any resell value?

Thoughts?!

[toddetch]

I bought my first 911 almost a year ago, an 80 SC Targa. AC installed but not working. From the research I have done I don’t believe it is worth the trouble to refresh it given the apparent fact that these systems never worked that well in the beginning. I pulled my compressor and condenser a couple of weeks ago, not so much to save weight but more to make it easier to work in the engine bay.

My plan is to save up for a Classic Retrofit Electrocooler while watching their early adopters to see how they do and how the system does.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by toddetch

My plan is to save up for a Classic Retrofit Electrocooler while watching their early adopters to see how they do and how the system does.

Yes I been looking at these with great interest. It seems like a far better solution and I have not seen any rave reviews about the AC in these 911's. They seem reputably bad. I'm leaning strongly towards it's removal I think but, as a newbie in this world, I am understandably hesitant.

[darrin]

Originally Posted by thefaculty

Yes I been looking at these with great interest. It seems like a far better solution and I have not seen any rave reviews about the AC in these 911's. They seem reputably bad. I'm leaning strongly towards it's removal I think but, as a newbie in this world, I am understandably hesitant.

To your initial question, whether to put back in the fuse/relay -- my initial answer would be no -- not good for the system to run in an undercharged/uncharged state and since these systems leak a bit of refrigerant by design, you should presume that your system's missing a fuse/relay for a reason.

As to removing the system (vs. leaving it as-is and inoperative) -- Think it depends on your intended use and how sensitive you are to extra weight. The counterpoint to removing all of the AC components is that it makes your car less original and potentially less salable/valuable to certain buyers.

I haven't bothered charging or using the AC on my daily driver/not tracked targa since I moved to colorado in 1999. A few years ago I removed the belt to the compressor but haven't done anything further to remove my ac unit.

While I realize that I'm carrying around 40 xtra pounds of junk, I honestly can only feel an incremental difference in performance when carrying a passenger that adds 3-4x that weight to my car and therefore question whether I'd realize any perceptible change after stripping out all of the AC-related "stuff" -- that said, i continue to consider removing the compressor and condensor (low hanging fruit where I'd most like to see weight reduction) one day -- just LOW on my list of priorities for a street daily driver.

[pmax]

Search is your friend.

A/C Removal.

[Bob Kontak]

Toronto and Portland. The original AC system is almost adequate that far north if you put the 47 hours into the system to bring it back to scratch.

By that I mean to kill all the snakes that degrade the system. E.g., fuzz buildup on the bottom of the evaporator. Way easier said than done. That's one of about 20 things.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by darrin

As to removing the system (vs. leaving it as-is and inoperative) -- Think it depends on your intended use and how sensitive you are to extra weight. The counterpoint to removing all of the AC components is that it makes your car less original and potentially less salable/valuable to certain buyers.

Thanks Darrin - I'm not too concerned about either the weight or the resale ability. I am dreamt of owning a 911 since I was a kid, this is my first, my birth year, and I'll keep her forever if I can. It's more about not cluttering a car with something that is inefficient or unused. I'd prefer to have a cleaner engine bay personally.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by pmax

Search is your friend.

A/C Removal.

Thanks pMax - yes, I have been all over that and many other threads about how to remove. I am more curious about if I should invest (or waste) the time finding out if it works. It sounds heavily involved for something that really isn't meant to be in the car. My understanding is that these were usually dealer additions and I think I'd probably prefer to delete anything that is not functioning.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Toronto and Portland. The original AC system is almost adequate that far north if you put the 47 hours into the system to bring it back to scratch.

By that I mean to kill all the snakes that degrade the system. E.g., fuzz buildup on the bottom of the evaporator. Way easier said than done. That's one of about 20 things.

lol - thanks Bob, I think you may have verbalized my thoughts here. It seems to be a ton of work, an investment of frustration, for something that won't bring as much joy as hitting the road and winding down a window!

[darrin]

Originally Posted by thefaculty

Thanks Darrin - I'm not too concerned about either the weight or the resale ability. I am dreamt of owning a 911 since I was a kid, this is my first, my birth year, and I'll keep her forever if I can. It's more about not cluttering a car with something that is inefficient or unused. I'd prefer to have a cleaner engine bay personally.

Perhaps the best thing for you would be to remove what I presume is the original York (?) compressor (conventional wisdom is to replace it with the newer densco (?) compressor introduced with the carrera anyway) and decklid condensor (hold onto this as it'd be necessary for a conventional (griffiths/etc.) ac install in the future) and related engine compartment "stuff" to clear out most of the weight and tidy up your engine compartment significantly.

[Bob Kontak]

It will be work to not eff stuff up if removing. Worth the effort. I am guessing ten hours for an enthusiastic DIY guy. Bag stuff up. Put it in a big box or two in the attic and save it for the next owner. You never really own a Porsche, you just feed it for a while.

It's more than 40 lbs. But I don't know how much more. I remember reading that it's 105lbs for everything. That was me reading something one guy posted 20 years ago.

If you are going to remove it, get it all out save wiring. If you have it in a box and someone likes your car and you have the kit, they wont freak out.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by thefaculty

Thanks pMax - yes, I have been all over that and many other threads about how to remove. I am more curious about if I should invest (or waste) the time finding out if it works. It sounds heavily involved for something that really isn't meant to be in the car. My understanding is that these were usually dealer additions and I think I'd probably prefer to delete anything that is not functioning.

Never needed it in NorCal. I suspect Toronto is the same. But then it's not a daily driver.

There's a dude Raw something in Texass hell or someplace like that who thinks differently. He knows the AC stuff.

[jac1976]

Originally Posted by thefaculty

Thanks pMax - yes, I have been all over that and many other threads about how to remove. I am more curious about if I should invest (or waste) the time finding out if it works. It sounds heavily involved for something that really isn't meant to be in the car. My understanding is that these were usually dealer additions and I think I'd probably prefer to delete anything that is not functioning.

Gracious response by the OP to yet another forum member who didn’t read the original post and simply provided a knee-jerk reply.

[schoward]

Spent $3K to repair and convert my working A/C to R134a and it does ok in NJ. It has been a lifesaver on long trips to keep humidity down and cabin comfortable, but marginal once temps get over 85-90 degrees F. 12 years later I am glad I have it.

That said, it gets used just a few times a year and costs a lot to convert (was working when I converted), not to mention needs yearly charge in spring which is an annual 1-hour project that's not hard, but not particularly fun.

If I bought another SC I would likely toss the A/C if it looked abandoned as it would surely be a lot of $, effort and possibly aggravation for marginal benefit, however, as you just got the car, I say do nothing. Remove it later if you don't miss it. Let the car and how you enjoy it reveal itself for awhile.

[RSBob]

In Toronto you really don’t need it.

Restoring or converting it would cost a small fortune and would net you mediocre performance unless you pop for 6 large and buy a totally reengineered system from RennAire Porsche 911 Air Conditioning Products which works great.

If I were you, I would pull out the dead weight, exactly where you don’t want it, in the back end. Then put it all in a box and save it if you sell the car you can say it includes original AC components not installed. I took mine out and never regretted it, but I live near Seattle.

[ADDvanced]

Remove it. And the hoses. It's at least 50lbs of garbage. All A/C systems were installed in north america by dealers, they were not original to the cars.

[TheSt|G]

It will cost many thousands and end up being "ok" at best. I'd spend the money on retrofitting opening rear windows.

[2jmotorsports]

I removed the AC in my 83 SC for several reasons:

1. It had 200K miles when I got it and has been heavily modified. It will never be a concourse car ever.

2. The compressor and condensor(?) under the decklid were gone when I got the car, and the AC hoses were open, exposing all the internals to the elements.

3. During removal, as I suspected, most of the components were already trash. The little heat exchanger attached to the blower in the smugglers box was green with corrosion when I pulled it out.

4. Since my car will be modified for the rest of its life, I am totally ok with removing the original system with entrails scattered all over the car and eventually replace it with a modern electric system that fits under the hood.

I guess it depends on your car's condition and what your long term plans are for it.

[thefaculty]

Thanks everyone for all your advice! Yes, this car will no doubt end up being modified as well. 120k on it and I ran it over to my local mechanic to see if he thought there was any refrigerant left, he couldn't find a few of the pieces he was looking for so it looks like a partial removal has been done already even though the compressor and condensers are still in place. I'll be disconnecting the condenser later today and pulling the whole system when I have some time. I'll leave the removal of the left over smog pipes for when I switch to SSI's and upgrade the exhaust system likely this winter.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by 2jmotorsports

I removed the AC in my 83 SC for several reasons:

1. It had 200K miles when I got it and has been heavily modified. It will never be a concourse car ever.

2. The compressor and condensor(?) under the decklid were gone when I got the car, and the AC hoses were open, exposing all the internals to the elements.

3. During removal, as I suspected, most of the components were already trash. The little heat exchanger attached to the blower in the smugglers box was green with corrosion when I pulled it out.

4. Since my car will be modified for the rest of its life, I am totally ok with removing the original system with entrails scattered all over the car and eventually replace it with a modern electric system that fits under the hood.

I guess it depends on your car's condition and what your long term plans are for it.

Awesome thread mate!! I wish I had the gusto to get into it that hard! I'm enjoying that car right now but perhaps someday I'll pluck up the courage to go all out on this!