Bad day at the track(engine drop time)

[MMARSH]

Well, I went to Willow Springs on Sunday. I was really looking forward to it because I havent run the Big track since having the 3.2 installed. It was also the first time that me and a buddy would have been on the track together in almost a year. His car is a white/blue RS replica and is mechanically identical with mine. I think we both want to see who really is the big dog between us

We go out in the first session and we are bumper to bumper passing each other in order for the track photo guy to get some good shots of us. On about the fifth lap, I'm leading us down the Main straight and as I break and downshift for turn one, I end up going from 5th down to 2nd. As soon as I realized what I had done, I pushed in the clutch, but the damage was done. I did a Compression check at the track and the number two cylinder is 120. My buddy said he saw a puff of smoke come out of the left pipe when i did it.

Long story short, It looks like I will be pulling my motor and taking it apart. I have a set of twin plug heads and distributors on the shelf ready to go in, but I had planned on waiting awhile before I installed them. (Maybe this missed shift was a subconscious act to put those heads on early) I will probably install 964 Cams and will have to replace the rod bolts. I'm hoping there is no damage to the pistons.

Maybe we can do a Southern Cali engine drop and fly Tyson down to help.

The best part of the story, My buddy ran a 133.8 and took FTD at the event. It was only an alfa event, but for those familiar with Willow Springs that is still moving along quite nicely.

Another interesting thing, when you think you have bad P-car problems someone always has it worse. I went over the other Facility at the track where the POC was having an event. Found out that a POC guys 914 burned to the ground due to a leaking fuel line. He had tracked the car all day on Saturday and afterwards went to the local track bar for dinner with a bunch of other POC guys. After dinner he walks out, gets in his car, turns the key and the car catches fire. he takes off his belts and starts using the the fire extinguisher,but he says it didnt do anything.
Luckily this guy had the state of mine to realize that he wasnt going to get the fire out, so he pushes his car out in the middle of the parking lot, away from the dozen or so other Porsches that it was parked around. he then ran inside to call 911. The car was a total loss. The kicker of the story he had just bought it.

Something funny the owner told me. While he was inside calling 911, Someone ran into the bar and yelled that a "Porsche" was on fire in the parking lot. He said it was kinda funny because everyone in the bar ran out thinking it was their car on fire.

[dickster]

LOL - sorry to had to at the last comment.


enjoyed the read, sorry about your motor, but you don't sound too bothered!!

richard

[Randy W]

Sorry to hear about the valve, Mike. I guess if you want to look on the bright side, it is January and that makes it a winter project. Your motor will be way cool after all those upgrades, and the race rod bolts will give you peace of mind .......... Best,

Randy Wells

[campbellcj]

Whose 914 burned? Anybody know?

[MMARSH]

Randy, I'm trying to stay upbeat about it, Hope to have it all back together for a February event. Ya have to remember, In california there is no winter

The 914 that was burned was owned by Tim Schilling. It had GT flares and he was about to put in the short stroke 3.2 liter motor out of his race 911.

[911pcars]

Mike,
Ouch. Sorry to hear about the engine. However, there's always a brighter side as you'll have a somewhat improved version, albeit not according to your timetable. Just to remind folks; all it takes is the mechanical shift into a lower gear to get the clutch and transaxle gears spinning at extreme rpms. Lifting (engaging) the clutch pedal for just an instant causes the engine to do likewise. Mike, maybe the next version you might want to try some slightly heavier valve springs, light weight retainers and (?) to minimize those high-rpm excursions.

I actually had this in mind (preventing the 5th-to-2nd downshift) yesterday at the Pomona swap meet. I picked up a 915 shift housing to see if I could fabricate some sort of lockout device that isn't going to cost $300. This was discussed at length a few weeks ago on this forum. I never saw any pictures of the $.25 fix, so I'm going to see if I can come up with a solution. If you don't hear from me about this again it's because I couldn't figure out a simple or economical way of doing it and thus will be shifting carefully with your past experience in mind.

Take care,
Sherwood
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[rscupper]

Sorry to hear your story, Mike. Let me know if a SoCal engine drop clinic is going to happen. It must have been a beautiful day at the track. Obviously, my car wasn't ready to go this weekend - again. Hang in there.

[tmctguer]

i ran with the POC at Streets of Willow this weekend.

the car that burned was a very, very quick 914. it was yellow, and carried the lettering "area 51" on it. it had Colorado Historic Vehicle plates, and the gentleman who drove it was caucasian, tall, approx. 50+ years old, with gray hair. don't know his name, but i've seen him at previous POC events. what a shame, that car could haul.

after reading MMARSH's post regarding a missed shift, it is ironic that i was planning to post today about my experience at the Streets. i attended the driving school on saturday to get some track time (i'm already licensed for the short track series).

in my last adventure at the Streets, i had a shift coupler problem and it really screwed up my day. i couldn't find third from second, couldn't find second from any gear, etc. . i came home, replaced all my bushings, realigned the shift coupler AND installed a robotek kit. the weekend event was my first event trying out the robotek. even though i have a slightly funny noise in 1st/2nd (see my previous thread), i am here to say that i REALLY loved the way it performed. i was totally confident about my shifting and knew when i was going into 2nd from any possible gear. i was pleasantly surprised. MMARSH, if you don't have a robotek installed, you may think of adding one.

as far as my day(s) on the track, i believe i finally made a huge breakthrough. i have a stock '73 911E and have been struggling to break a 1:30 laptime on the short track. (don't laugh you boxter & late 911 owners......i'd like to see you drive MY car and turn a super quick time !).

on the first day, i felt like i was running faster than before, but since they were non-timed runs, i couldn't confirm. when we started timed runs on sunday, i ready my lap times and i had turned a 1.27 ! i couldn't believe it. i had shaved 3 seconds off my previous best time. the next time out, i repeated my best lap results. i was afraid i would be told that someone had switched my transponder.......

then during the 2 final "real" time trial runs, i turned a 1:26. i was stunned and ecstatic. the differences for me were:

1). new robotek kit and coupler/bushing work: i wasn't having shifting problems.

2). new oil cooler: sounds silly, but my oil temps were so "under control" that i rarely, if ever, evened had to look down to double check.

3). gear selection: i used 2nd gear quite a lot going through corners where i had previously used 3rd. my RPM's were much higher which worried me a bit at first, but i could launch myself towrd or at the apex and truly get good exit speed. i feel like i was "squirting" the cars through the corners and using the throttle to set the car up into the turns.

4). tire pressure: i ain't an expert on tires, by any means. i run stock pirelli P6000 but i aired the fronts to 33 (from normally 29?) and rears to 38 (from 35 normally?). may not be a big deal.....it was just something different.

5). looking ahead: i really made it a point to look ahead to the apex points i was trying to hit.

6). come into corners hotter: i was scaring myself all day, but i began to feel what a bonzai lap was like. if i wasn't on that edge, i knew i was running slower than my best time.

anyway, sorry for the motor damage MMARSH.

[Laura-Hergesheimer MotorS]

The 914 was Tim's wife's car. He had called her before dinner and told her the car was running great and he was having such a good time that he was going to stay for Sunday. He didn't want to make the next phone call.

He had a pretty good gas leak going, you could see the puddle under the car and the trail leading down the parking lot. Tim commented he would have never thought he could get out of a car with a cage that fast. He ran back in the Cantina to find a extinguisher but couldn't locate one, Mark emptied a large halon we had, but it was engulfed. Then the magnesium lit, a tire inside blew and put a hole in the roof, rear tire blew and took off the fender and gave everyone a show. The fireman were able to get the wheels from inside the car out, so he may be able to save those. Everything was in the car, nice new helmet, tires, phone...
The articles in the front trunk seemed to be OK. (Since we were the only ones at the Cantina we brought home the wheels and on Sunday taking them out it was like rolling a oversize charcoal briquette.)

Thanks to Tim's quick thinking he did get the car away from others that were parked all around him. The restaurant was filled with POC drivers and you're right, tables emptied in a hurry. People tried, but there wasn't much that could be done. Our condolences Tim.

Laura

[speeder]

Micheal, If you need my hands, just e-mail me- I'm in L.A. After seeing Superman's engine-drop pics, I'm sure we can make some lemons into lemonade w/ Pelicanhead brotherhood down here.

As for 914 story, what a drag. It does give fuel,(sorry), to the dry-chem. vs. halon extinguisher debate from previous thread, but maybe nothing could have saved it.

[Jack Olsen]

I'm here, too. Check your email, Mike.

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by MMARSH

Long story short, It looks like I will be pulling my motor and taking it apart. I have a set of twin plug heads and distributors on the shelf ready to go in, but I had planned on waiting awhile before I installed them. (Maybe this missed shift was a subconscious act to put those heads on early) I will probably install 964 Cams and will have to replace the rod bolts. I'm hoping there is no damage to the pistons.

Mike,
Were you running stock valve springs? I'm running AASCO valve springs and some titanium retainers with the thought that I won't have to worry about missed shifts.
-Chris
'86 911 twinplug, 3.2->3.4, 964 cams

[82SC]

i am game too

I have 6 jack stands...2 SUV stands (21")

and I have a critical SUV floor jack that can lift the car very high...

a wooden dolly etc...

I am in SoCal...

I would love to help out and meet some of the pelican BBSers

I can provide tools...and 2 engine drop experiences

MJ

[rscupper]

Mechanically, I don't have a clue - maybe you guys can teach me something. I do, however, know how to stock an ice chest ... lots and lots of practice doing that.

[MMARSH]

Thanks for the offers of help, I really appreciate it. I've never pulled a 911 motor before so having some experianced hands would be great help. A stocked ice chest is also a must for this so it looks like Brian has that handled.

About how long do you think it will take to drop this motor. there is no Air Conditioning or any of its crap or no heater or blower motor. Having never done it, it doesnt look that hard, but, like I said I've never done it.

If you guys really want to help, I'll try to figure out when is a good time to do it. I would like to do it within a couple of weeks because I would like to have it all back together for a March event. Let me know what works for you guys and we will set it up.

The heads I have on the engine are completely stock. The Modified heads already have the titanium retainers and EBS Racing springs.

Chris, have you dynoyed your motor? how does it perform. it sounds like exactly what I 'm thinking about doing to mine. any details you have about it would be appreciated.

[john70t]

Speaking of missed shifts (they seem to be quite common, myself included), does anyone make a positive shift plate that keeps the shift lever in grooves at all times?

[orbmedia]

Before you drop the motor, here is a technique for a "quick fix" to your problem.

Bring the motor to TDC on the affected cylinder. Remove the valve cover and rocker arm on that cylinder and remove the spark plug. Fill the cylinder with compressed air (over 80-100 psi). With a hammer pound on the bent valve stem that is exposed. The smashing of the valve against the seat via the spring tension will straighten it and you will be good to go. This technique works on 911 engines with slightly bent valves. It can last tens of thousands of miles even with racing use. There is a risk that the valve will weaken. Use the technique at your own risk.

Go ahead, flame away.

[speeder]

Mike, as far as dropping the motor, I've done it once before years ago w/ no help, no experience and no manual, and it was a piece of cake, IMO. I'm sure it's a little more involved to re-install, but not much. I'm no master tech, but have massive engine-swap/install experience w/ many different cars, FWIW.

[82SC]

with no help doing it by myself 6 hours the first time...4 the second time...

with help and people's experience can't imagine more then 3 hours

keep me posted with details

MJ

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by MMARSH

About how long do you think it will take to drop this motor. there is no Air Conditioning or any of its crap or no heater or blower motor. Having never done it, it doesnt look that hard, but, like I said I've never done it.

The heads I have on the engine are completely stock. The Modified heads already have the titanium retainers and EBS Racing springs.
Chris, have you dynoyed your motor? how does it perform. it sounds like exactly what I 'm thinking about doing to mine. any details you have about it would be appreciated.

Michael,
Dropping the motor is easy. You basically jack the car up some so you can work under it, lower the motor onto something (blocks of wood under head exchangers), remove jack and then jack car up in the air so you can get the motor out.
I should put the whole 3.4 thing on my web page but just to answer the basic questions I'm starting another thread "3.2 to 3.4L twin plug conversion".
Chris