Sensor questions for 3.6 conversion

[billjam]

I've just spent an hour or so searching the topic here and on the MegaSquirt site but still have a few unanswered queries regarding the various sensors on '88 3.2 and '92 3.6 engines and the best way to utilise them.
I am putting together a 3.6 with ITBs, coil-on-plug ignition (x12) and MS III engine management. This engine will end up in my '88 Carrera.

Flywheel Speed & Reference Sensors
The 3.2 has two sensors, one takes signals from the ring gear teeth (I think) for RPM, the other is a timing reference signal off a bolt in the outside of the flywheel. I don't intend to use these with the conversion.
My 3.6 engine came to me in pieces and included this magnetic sensor below which I think is called a "pulse sender" in PET, part # 911.606.217.03.



I don’t have a mounting bracket for this sensor, but I am guessing it sits close to the 60-2 teeth on the flywheel and provides both the engine speed and timing reference signals to the ECU. Can someone please confirm this? If someone can post a picture of this sensor mounted, it will be useful as well.
I’ll eventually need the mounting bracket if anyone has a spare.
Because I am not using a distributor, I will have to fit a single-tooth sensor on the front of the LH camshaft to identify which cylinder to fire (e.g. Clewett 1001-60).
An alternative may be to fire the four coil packs on both cylinders that are at TDC (like wasted spark)? Any comments on this approach?

Oil Temp and Pressure Sensors
I am fitting a 911 oil cooler to the engine so the standard 964 cover plate (C) has been replaced by a standard 911 thermostat (D).


Oil Pressure Sensor
On a 3.6, the oil pressure sensor (A) may be fitted directly in the crankcase as shown, or it may have been in the cover plate (C), I don’t know which.
Regardless, I will install the sensor from the 3.2 engine directly in the crankcase if threads are the same.

Oil Temperature Sensor
On a 3.6, this sensor (B) is normally fitted in the cover plate (C), therefore I need to find a new home for it. My current plan is to drill and tap the breather housing (E) at the red circle and fit the 3.2 sensor here.

Oil Pressure Switch
The standard 3.2 oil pressure switch for the idiot light is fitted to the oil gallery just to the right of the crankshaft pulley on a 3.2 engine.
I haven’t been able to find its 3.6 equivalent in PET or 964 wiring diagrams. I also can’t find a convenient location for it anywhere in the 3.6 oil gallery except for maybe a tee fitting under the pressure sensor.
How do 3.6 conversions normally handle this?

[KTL]

Bill,

I'm not familiar with MSIII so I can't comment much. I know a slight bit about the Electromotive stuff and it seems the TEC3/4 systems would be right up your alley. There's a TEC3 system on the classifieds that's been upgraded to 4 firmware. Clewett has the Electromotive stuff all figured out for you on your 3.6 with ITBs.

For the oil diagnostics, on my 3.0L the previous owners chose to use hole A near the t-stat housing for a mechanical oil pressure gauge. There is a tee on the fitting to attach an adjustable oil warning light switch. Works great. I'm not suggesting a mech. oil pressure gauge, just saying that this hole is a good place to pull these signals.

Is C just a plug? On the 3.2 and earlier engines with on-engine oil coolers, this t-stat functions to feed the oil cooler once the engine warms up. Since the 3.6 has no engine cooler, is this not a t-stat and just a plug? That'd be ideal to tap if just a plug. As an aside, I know some have gutted the t-stat to bypass the engine cooler (find it needless or cooler leaks and they don't want to replace it) on earlier engines. In that gutted case it's just a plug.

For temperature, if you've got some custom oil lines you can plumb-in a fitting from Joe's, Peterson, or similar to pull temp from your desired location. Just a thought if there's a specific location from where you'd like to take your temp. reading

Peterson Inline Race Car Fluid System Temperature Sender Port Assemblies




edit............

Don't ask about the case breather assembly. I have no idea why its so massively huge. My car is still equipped with the factory oil tank and the only modification is the addition of a catch can/breather tank in the LR wheel well.

[uwanna]

Bill,
Eighteen years or so ago, I put a 964 3.6 into my '80SC. I was disturbed because it had no on engine oil cooler, and I knew I would need all the cooling I could get! So, I added one!
First thing I did was drill out the oil galleries in the case to the cooler, installed an oil cooler (after modification, see below) with rubber gaskets, installed a thermostat, then set out to deal with the oil pressure sender, oil pressure switch, and oil temp sender. The pressure and pressure switch are easy. You just use the stock 3.6 sender which is a duplex unit (pressure and pressure switch) and install in hole "A". One caution, if the 3.6 duplex sender is used with an earlier oil pressure gauge, the gauge will display a reading twice what the "real" oil pressure is. This is a well known glitch but not a problem, as all you do is mentally divide it in two!
You get used to it!
The oil temp takes some thought. First off, to install the cooler, you need to "carve out" the aluminum oil return tube from the cooler. Then you need to use a steel oil return tube with a threaded fitting to the case ala the stock 3.6 one. I then welded a threaded fitting to the side of the oil return tube to accomadate the oil temp sender. Has worked great for the past eighteen years!

If anything is not quite clear, ask me!

Grant

[billjam]

Originally Posted by KTL

Bill,
...
Is C just a plug? On the 3.2 and earlier engines with on-engine oil coolers, this t-stat functions to feed the oil cooler once the engine warms up. Since the 3.6 has no engine cooler, is this not a t-stat and just a plug? That'd be ideal to tap if just a plug. As an aside, I know some have gutted the t-stat to bypass the engine cooler (find it needless or cooler leaks and they don't want to replace it) on earlier engines. In that gutted case it's just a plug.

For temperature, if you've got some custom oil lines you can plumb-in a fitting from Joe's, Peterson, or similar to pull temp from your desired location. Just a thought if there's a specific location from where you'd like to take your temp. reading.

Kevin,
On 3.6 964 engines, the cover C replaces the thermostat (D) and is where the oil temp sensor (M14x1.5) is usually mounted.
The pressure sensor is M18x1.5 which is the same thread as the hole in the crankcase at A as well as the large hole in cover C. Because the engine was dismantled when I bought it, I'm not sure whether the pressure sensor was originally mounted at A or C. I'm going with A.

As far as the choice of engine management is concerned, MegaSquirt attracts me because it is cheap and DIY. For me, most of the fun is in working out how to do it and then building it.

Originally Posted by uwanna

Bill,
First thing I did was drill out the oil galleries in the case to the cooler, installed an oil cooler (after modification, see below) with rubber gaskets, installed a thermostat, then set out to deal with the oil pressure sender, oil pressure switch, and oil temp sender. The pressure and pressure switch are easy. You just use the stock 3.6 sender which is a duplex unit (pressure and pressure switch) and install in hole "A". One caution, if the 3.6 duplex sender is used with an earlier oil pressure gauge, the gauge will display a reading twice what the "real" oil pressure is. This is a well known glitch but not a problem, as all you do is mentally divide it in two!
You get used to it!
The oil temp takes some thought. First off, to install the cooler, you need to "carve out" the aluminum oil return tube from the cooler. Then you need to use a steel oil return tube with a threaded fitting to the case ala the stock 3.6 one. I then welded a threaded fitting to the side of the oil return tube to accomadate the oil temp sender. Has worked great for the past eighteen years!

If anything is not quite clear, ask me!

Grant

Thanks for your comments Grant.
I have also followed the same path with the thermostat and oil cooler except that I modified the oil return fitting that screws into the 3.6 case so that a standard 911 oil cooler fits without removing its oil return tube, like this.
I will drill and tap an M14x1.5 hole in the breather housing (E) for the temp sensor.

Thanks for the tip about the 964 sensor function including the pressure switch. That saves me having to find a separate location for it. I'm not sure if the gauge and idiot light wiring need to be revised in my '88 gauge, but that's for another day.

[billjam]

Still looking for some feedback on how the the 964 flywheel speed/reference sensor fits and works.

[billjam]

Bump for info on how the 964 flywheel sensor works with a conversion.