Thanks Jason!

Well based on what I have found so far it seems to be pretty close. These are machine shop prices of a Porsche specialist machine shop.

Align Bore mains 290.00
Time Cert head studs 290.00
Oil Squirters 250.00
Pressure Test Oil cooler 130.00
hot tank case 40.00
rebuild con rods 150.00
inspect P&C 50.00
3 angle valve job 300.00
rebuild rockers 175.00
cam towers oil tube cln 140.00
polish crank 40.00
oil bypass mod 160.00
pelican engine case kit 727.00
timing chains and sprokets 200.00

Total 2,942.00

so that is with out P&Cs that can add anywhere from 1500-4000. no tax included or shipping. so that gets it 4442 - 6942 without many other small parts here and there. Not to mention that is more then i paid for the car in the first place. so it really does seem that a 3.0 liter and the machine work for the 2.7 will be extremely close in price. The main difference as noted is with the machine work I will have a engine that I KNOW is perfect and running right.

im afraid that either way, i will have to save up some $$$ before moving forward. Anyone want to buy a SV650? :)

$300 for a valve job? Where do I sign up!

http://www.olliesmachine.com/uploads/ollies_price_list.pdf

This is the site I got all the prices off of based on the recommendation of a Pelican.

I'd stop working on the engine, step back and take a good look at the car. You don't have alot in it at this point, but you've learned alot. From what I remember, you don't know the condition of the trans? Is there any rust? Look hard, poke around. Brakes need to be rebuilt? Master cylinder? Pedal cluster? Suspension? This stuff all adds up fast. You'll may have $20k in it before it hits the street.

Take stock, it may make more sense to find another car and sell or part this one out....

first off, realize that just about every 911 is a $20,000 car. you can buy some for 20 grand; those cars should be essentially perfect (whatever that means). someone can give you a 911, and it will take about 20 grand to get it running properly. yes, it is possible to do it for less, but people with the skills to rejuvenate a car don't seem to be able to resist fixing things. the more things you fix, the more it costs, and pretty soon you're at the 20 grand marker.

so, once again, to me the question is what are you looking for?

are you looking for a project to tinker with? then you probably have the right car.

are you looking for the satisfaction of rebuilding a 911? then you probably have the right car.

are you looking to build up your skills/credibility as a mechanic? then you probably have the right car.

do you want to drive a/your 911 in the near future? if so, you have the wrong car.

the car you have has an engine that doesn't run and was mechanically mistreated. i see no reason to believe the rest of the car wasn't mistreated as well. the brakes will undoubtedly need work. all the rubber parts need replacing: fuel lines, brake lines, suspension bushings, etc, etc. gearbox? is there any rust?

if it's all about this car, then more power to you. first repair the engine, and then see what else needs to be done. if it's all about driving, then i would seriously consider getting another car.

good luck either way (seems to me some good luck is overdue in your case).

I don't think that price includes parts which could triple the cost.

Align Bore mains 290.00 plus custom expensive bearings
Time Cert head studs 290.00 Then add 24 dilivars
Oil Squirters 250.00 Squirters are already there
Pressure Test Oil cooler 130.00 You can buy a pressure tester from Stomski
hot tank case 40.00
rebuild con rods 150.00
inspect P&C 50.00
3 angle valve job 300.00 new valves for the mid years tend to be very expensive
rebuild rockers 175.00 and polish the cam
cam towers oil tube cln 140.00 Blow air and WD40 through look for the 9 pinholes
polish crank 40.00
oil bypass mod 160.00 77 is already done
pelican engine case kit 727.00
timing chains and sprokets 200.00

Total 2,942.00

Brucehttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1316994658.jpg

Just to support the cause I'll test the cooler for free.

Ollies align bores back to standard, but not for $290.

Why? Standard steel ones have always worked fine for me.

Yep, but they should be pulled and replaced when cleaning the case.

Its not too hard to pull the end plugs and run a brush through it and clear the holes. I like the way Ollies cleans and polishes them though.

WHat is this?

Thanks James. I appreciate the support.

This is the kit im referring to..

12 Factory Rod Bolts (1965-83) or 12 RaceWare Rod Bolts (1984-89 & Turbo 1978-89)
12 Factory Rod Nuts
Set of Main Bearings
Number Eight Nose Bearing
Rod Bearing Set
Intermediate Shaft Bearing Set (from 1970)
Complete set of Flywheel Bolts
Pair of Timing Chains
3 Oil Pump Lock Tabs
Set of six chain ramps

Well I would have to say it really depends on when you ask me..This has been quite the roller coaster ride so far. Some days i have just what I wanted and others, well it would be nice if it just wasnt one night mare after another with the discoveries ive made. I truely did want a car I could tinker with and keep my butt of the couch. So check I got that. I did want to learn about 911s. I DEFINITELY got that. I was just hoping to be actually driving it by now. It really would be nice to just have one thing I could find on this poor car that was done right.

I know people have asked other questions about the condition of this car. So far I know the front right caliper is frozen and yes there are a few rust spots on the car. I guess only I can answer if this poor car is worth saving.

Thank you everyone for your advice and kind of joining me on this wild ride of what you shouldnt do to a car. Financially, im sure the best answer is to part it out and recoup what I can and then go buy a running 911. However, im so far into it, im not really sure I want to give up on it. Maybe a rum and coke will help me figure it out:D

I prefer ARP bolts (nuts included) and use them on all my motors.

You probably don't need a #8 nose bearing. They rarely wear out.

I rarely ever replace flywheel bolts.

buy the racing timing chains

Have you thought much about the performance difference between the 2.7 and a 3.0 in addition to the cost? Would hate to see you get it on the road and then feel like it is underpowered.

But follow your gut and have fun doing it your way - it is your hobby after all!

Helicoil for transmission mount is fine and El Cheapo suggestions
 

I know this is too late to help you, but I'm here to testify that Helicoil repairs to the transmission mounting threaded holes are perfectly strong. I've had this in my street/track SC for at least 20 years, and one or more in my track only car for 10-15 years, with no issues at all.

I think that Time-certs are the proper mousetrap for the magnesium case head studs. Because there is not much material between the stud hole and the cylinder spigot, and the magnesium is relatively weak. The Helicoils don't resist sideways pressure. Often the cylinders are hard to remove, and when removed you can see where there is a line corresponding with the studs on both the spigot ID and the cylinder base OD.

The transmission mounts are a thick piece of steel, so no issues of that sort will arise.

Not that there is any weakness in the Time-Certs.

You could try a cut-rate rebuild - just replace the main (except for #8) and rod bearings, and use new rod bearing bolts (stock would be fine - this is not going to be a race motor).

Some shops could tell you if your valves are leaking by putting a vacuum on the ports.

You can check the ring end gaps as some indication on ring wear. And you can check the ring to land clearances. It is too bad you didn't act on your thought to put air to the low compression holes, because one of the best features of a leakdown is listening for where the air is leaking out.

I'd spring for new CE rings (the head seal rings). You could lap the heads to the cylinders with valve grinding paste just to clean things up without changing dimensions. For that matter, you could do the same first with Prussian blue to see if that's a source of all that original crud.

If your chain idler arms looked to have plenty of clearance (especially the left one) from the chain box with the tensioners installed, that might indicate that your chain is more or less OK, and your gears not too worn. If the gears don't visualy look especially worn, maybe there is another cost you can save.

You won't necessarily need a full gasket set, which often comes with stuff you don't need like new valve cover bolts and washers. Some gaskets/seals are pretty much hard not to replace, especially with all the leaks - the flywheel seal and the crank pulley seal, and the O ring around the #8 (get the SC/3.2 part, which is a bit thicker and is said to seal better).

Take a good look at the oil passage seals. Chances are good you can reuse the two for the oil pump - they are captured in there and can't go anywhere. As long as relaxed they are a bit longer than the two spaces into which they fit they should be good. Oil cooler maybe the same for its 3 seals - I often reuse these, but haven't had quite that leaky a motor.

You will need the little O rings for the case throughbolts - those are destroyed 95% of the time even if they never leaked a drop. New seals for the return tubes are probably in order, depending on the condition of the ones you have - all that glop was probably put on there because of a leak, though it may be that in desparation someone just glopped on the RTV every where they could think of.

The lock tabs for the oil pump, though not a high cost item, can easily be reused several times. The forces on those fasteners are not at all like toose on rod bolts, or even case bolts, and the nuts are unlikely to back off if properly torqued as it is. My pure guess is that if Porsche hadn't put them on to start with, no one would decide something needed to be done about it.

Yes, lots of negatives to short-cutting. Some, like reusing the 6 flywheel bolts, are pretty sure not to cause issues. I have been torquing my race motors to 150 lbs/ft, with narry a stripped thread/broken bolt, so 110 isn't likely to cost a significant permanent loss of strength. Others may be iffier, like not resizing the rods or align boring a mag case. Of course, you could check these for ovality and see if still within spec.

No shop would touch such a rebuild, because they know at a minimum their reputation would suffer. But you are your own shop.

CenTech has a bore scope with a head small enough to fit a 14mm spark plug hole - but I think that Harbor Freight only carries the larger one. Pity, as you could have spotted that washer.

Still not too late to button it back up and see how it runs, for that matter. After having injectors checked and cleaned.

i wouldn't count on it...

having a frozen caliper is not a big deal. the rust spots now, that is a big deal. in case you didn't know, the thing with older cars is that prior to 1975 there was minimal rust-proofing on these cars. as the years went by, porsche added more galvanized sheet metal until the entire car was galvanized. without the rust-proofing, the sheet metal... rusts. and the chassis will rust in places you can't see, like under the rocker covers and in every place where there is a void in the tub. if you search on the forums, you can find countless amazing stories of people completely dismantling their cars, cutting off great chunks of the tub, welding in new pieces, and then putting it all back together again.

i am absolutely in awe of the dedication, skill, ingenuity, and extra cash that people like that possess. i'd love to be able to tackle such a project. all that being said, is this something you'd like to do? because with those rust spots, some part of that odyssey is in your future.

everything you've mentioned is repairable. all it takes is time, money, tools, and determination. the skill will come if the will holds out.

and yes, you are the only one that can decide if it's worth it to you. i would personally like to see the car saved, but my druthers are obviously irrelevant here.

i'd recommend about 6 :)

Warped case
 

There is another discussion going on as we speak on this board about saving/using a 2.7 case. Someone posted this picture showing the bearing wear pattern on a warped case.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1317007510.jpg

There are local shops around here that could do the head work, etc. And looking at your price list, you could easily cut a lot of that stuff off of that. You could also easily do the time certs/ helicoils yourself also. I wouldn't give up. Do it in pieces. I can run up to you and take a look at, but not until next week.
Marc

Thanks you have a PM.