I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by 911 tweaks

style B...what is the temp if running inbtwn the 2nd & 3rd white line = about 9 o'clock...?? I cannot read the temp #'s on the side of the gage...thx...

'bout 225.

[KelogGes]

Been extremely busy, just returned from a couple of months working on a Super Yacht in Europe France & Italy in the Mediterranean. Cote d'Azur; had to temporarily put all my 911 PFC new prototype projects on hold as well as existing PFC design production

[wwest]

It's okay, he break was rather enjoyable....

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Josh D

I need to clarify my oil temps as it appears I was ready my temp gauge wrong. I have type "C" in this picture:



I had always thought that the white line at the top of the warm up zone was 180*. But apperantly it is 194*. When fully warmed up and not running A/C, my needle will go to just above that mark, or 200*. Running A/C I'm in the 220* to 230* range. Still well below the red zone, but probably not ideal either.

I have "style B" markings on my oil temp gauge and am in the same part of the country as Josh, so outside temps are the same. But my car has been changed over to RS mods so I have a huge Setrab oil cooler in the nose along with the stock front fender oil cooler. That said, the 3.6 engine does not have a engine mounted oil cooler so extra cooling is needed.

My car runs at 194f all the time even when its really hot outside. Turning the A/C on brings it up to about 215f but thats about it.

I also work with airplanes, so air-cooled engines are my forte. You WANT your oil temps to be at or above 100c/212f so that it gets good and hot and also boils the moisture out of the oil. One thing is that if the oil temp gauge is showing 194, the oil temp at several areas in the system are well above this point, so you want the oil temps to be in this ballpark for long life of the engine and oil.

Any good oil will go 230-240 degrees with no issues. Anything above this temp and IMHO you should turn the A/C off and let the oil temps cool down.

Might want to look at our very own Chuck Moreland's page on oil temps located here: ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Oil Temperature and Engine Life

[Josh D]

I recently bought an IR thermometer to double check. After a typical drive home in the heat of the day (105*-110* ambient) running the A/C, I was reading 220* at the temp sender.

[Joeaksa]

And what did the gauge say? How close was it to the temp of the sender?

[Josh D]

I'd guess maybe 3/16" above the white mark. If 200* is the needle just above the white mark, than I think the sender/guage are pretty close to what the IR therm read.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by Josh D

I'd guess maybe 3/16" above the white mark. If 200* is the needle just above the white mark, than I think the sender/guage are pretty close to what the IR therm read.

Josh -- the first white hash mark above the white block on the bottom (Style B) is 90C/194F. That's the mark you're referring to, yes?

[Josh D]

Quote de Josh D

I'd guess maybe 3/16" above the white mark. If 200* is the needle just above the white mark, than I think the sender/guage are pretty close to what the IR therm read.

Josh -- the first white hash mark above the white block on the bottom (Style B) is 90C/194F. That's the mark you're referring to, yes?

To clarify, 3/16" above the white line/block equaled 220 deg on the IR thermometer pointed at and around the temp sender.

[KelogGes]

July was the hottest month in the contiguous United States since record-keeping began in 1895, government scientists have said, a trend that meteorologists attribute to climate change.

hows your 911 a/c working in the hotter parts of the USA?

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

You WANT your oil temps to be at or above 100c/212f so that it gets good and hot and also boils the moisture out of the oil. One thing is that if the oil temp gauge is showing 194, the oil temp at several areas in the system are well above this point, so you want the oil temps to be in this ballpark for long life of the engine and oil.
Might want to look at our very own Chuck Moreland's page on oil temps located here: ELEPHANT RACING Tech Topic, Oil Temperature and Engine Life

Excellent points. I think the water-cooled experience of most folks has them generally thinking that 180* is ideal and 210 is overheating. Not with these cars.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

hows your 911 a/c working in the hotter parts of the USA?

Just fine actually. If I manage to get covered parking at work, I have a cool cabin within minutes on my drive home. If it's been sitting in the sun and gets heat soaked, it's more like 15 minutes until it's comfortable.

Regarding engine oil temps, as long as I drive reasonable and don't drive to redline in 1st and 2nd gears like I do in the morning , my temps in the heat of the day stay below 225*. This I can live with.

Here's how I mounted my condensor in my new FG ducktail:

[KelogGes]

At up to about 250 F OIL temps should be safe on your air cooled 911, but just above 250 F your oil probably will just start to slowly breaking down if ran for extended periods of time; personally I get Nervous above 250
Note: I have a lot of experience running my 911 with A/C for more than 20 years usually without a front oil cooler and over the years I have exceeded 250 several times without any damage. Regardless I get nerviouse above 250 F in stop and go traffic and extended idling in Summer


temps written about between 187=200 or so are for water cooled engines and the radiator water should be thermostatically controlled to normally be no more then 187 F at most; most of these thermostats for auto radiator water temps are designed to maintain 180-185 F max; some diesel engines water thermostats run a few degrees higher i.e. 187 max; Note the water jackets on a water cooled car running water temp at i.e. 185 F, the oil in the oil pan is hotter often someplace in the lower 200s F

[ratpiper71T]

I may be a little off but normal operating temp for water cooled engines is around 200-230 as well. The 180* thermostat opens at this temp, but not before, much like the oil thermostats for air-cooled motors to not allow cooling of the liquid be it oil or water until it reaches proper operating temp--not because the therm rating is the operating temp.

[KelogGes]

Josh it looks like you are making your rear condenser install look nicer

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Josh D

Just fine actually. If I manage to get covered parking at work, I have a cool cabin within minutes on my drive home. If it's been sitting in the sun and gets heat soaked, it's more like 15 minutes until it's comfortable

You will need more surface area in your rear PFC, To be honest yours is just not big enough to get your temps down quicker and lower for what you really need!
My cabin temps drop from when the car is sitting parked sitting in the sun at about 93 ambient and I step inside and the cabin is 150 plus +++ and I drive about 1/4 to 1/2 a mile or so (just a few blocks) in only a few minutes and the cabin starts to cool good with low 30s vent temps. but i have not been monitoring cabin temp
only vent temps.

I say this from my personal experience trying the same PFC you have and are using, after tweaking it everyway possible; because I was not happy using the same PFC you have is why I got angry and custom designed and made my own; which is designed to use every possible square inch/milimeter of the full intake air opening; and then because I still wanted colder and faster cabin temp drops I designed my front PFC and made it even larger then Behr/Porsche did then I changed the front fan blower and this made it fairly easy to get constant low 30's vent temps. I did a ton of testing to say the least before I was happy with my designes.

This picture is a new front and rear PFC matched set I just finished, I made this picture yesterday

[KelogGes]

Josh D are you running the stock OEM tube and fin front condenser with your newer rear deck lid PFC?

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Josh D are you running the stock OEM tube and fin front condenser with your newer rear deck lid PFC?

Yes. And I wish I would have replaced it when I did the upgrade. When I removed it to clean it, a lot of the fins were brittle enough to desintigrate in my hands.

It will be replaced down the road.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

You will need more surface area in your rear PFC, To be honest yours is just not big enough to get your temps down quicker and lower for what you really need!
My cabin temps drop from when the car is sitting parked sitting in the sun at about 93 ambient and I step inside and the cabin is 150 plus +++ and I drive about 1/4 to 1/2 a mile or so (just a few blocks) in only a few minutes and the cabin starts to cool good with low 30s vent temps. but i have not been monitoring cabin temp
only vent temps.

Apples to oranges. I'm dealing with much higher ambient temps (110*+) than 93*. You would need more condenser area as well to get the performance you describe. My A/C works very well up to 105*. Beyond that, I need more condenser. At some point, I'll upgrade the front condenser, but I'm not interested in adding the weight or complexity of fender condensers and fans, even if it improved my A/C at temps above 105*.

[brads911sc]

get a Kuehl front condenser and call it a day. Quality is second to none... less than $300.

Originally Posted by Josh D

Apples to oranges. I'm dealing with much higher ambient temps (110*+) than 93*. You would need more condenser area as well to get the performance you describe. My A/C works very well up to 105*. Beyond that, I need more condenser. At some point, I'll upgrade the front condenser, but I'm not interested in adding the weight or complexity of fender condensers and fans, even if it improved my A/C at temps above 105*.