I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[zippy_gg]

Originally Posted by hcoles

you need more because you don't think two micro channels is not enough condenser performance?

No, what I meant is that I also need the other items you listed, such as compressor, barrier hose, etc...
My system has not worked in years according to the PO. In fact he sold the car as he was moving Miami and was concerned about a cab with no AC.
I plan on doing all the work, with the notable exception of filling the system.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

If you would like to know the specal prices I have decided on for people who are registered users here on or before today Friday 7/29/11
private message me

Just sent you an email so pls put us on the list.

Thx,

Joe A

[KelogGes]

I know there are many do it yourself your way people in this world, because I am this way too so I write this to those that are on extreme budget but still want their 911 ac a bit colder so I write this for YOU because I care about people and want to help YOU

This is also written to others who want knowledge about technology history

Please understand and do not be offended I am extremely limited due to patents pending to discuss the state of the art technology I am using, but I can discuss older technology I have rejected and don’t use, however it’s a waste of my time to spend much time for me to discuss older technology to educate very much for obvious reasons



picture is of a "MULTI-FLOW CONDENSER" "USING OLD TECHNOLOGY" (compared to what I use); installed into the rear deck lid of a 911 by a well known 911 A/C conversion company that does work a little better than some are selling but not the best.

"Multi-flow heat exchanger" is a several year old technology but IS newer and BETTER (more efficient) THEN serpentine or plate and fin technology

FYI This IS NOT the technology I am using! I am using the latest state of the art technology after a four year engineering research project study and development developing my own patent pending products

I will change in a heartbeat to a better technology the moment it is discovered and my quest for knowledge in engineerng constantly continues many hours every day, this is the difference from what I am doing compared to others

Speaking of others this picture is a simple UNIVERSAL CONDENSER publicly available for about $150 including shipping; if you do enough reading about aftermarket 911 condensers you will find it

By the way I have one of these UNIVERSAL CONDENSERS (not pictureed) I tested some time ago out of curiosity for a couple of months and it does work much better than any 911 OEM deck lid condenser when using R134A Freon;

NOTE: if anyone is short on funds for my rear deck lid contour condenser and wants one like I have shown here in the picture I will sell it for $100 plus shipping; BUT DO NOT EXPECT IT TO GIVE YOU WHAT MY PATENT PENDING CONDENSERS WOULD GIVE YOU!

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by joeaksa

just sent you an email so pls put us on the list.

Thx,

joe a

thanks joe got it including your email address

[RSTarga]

Could you give us the dimensions for your FRONT condensor. I am looking to see if it will fit in the front oil cooler position of the 73 rs type front spoiler. I currently use a factory front condensor in this space.
I think Boba is also looking at a similar solution.

[Porchcar guy]

Sent ya a message concerning prices on front and rear condensers..Waiting to hear back...Thanks !

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by zippy_gg

No, what I meant is that I also need the other items you listed, such as compressor, barrier hose, etc...
My system has not worked in years according to the PO. In fact he sold the car as he was moving Miami and was concerned about a cab with no AC.
I plan on doing all the work, with the notable exception of filling the system.

OK, got it. I'm in about the same boat. Been reading on the Griffiths website. The Rennaire webiste seems a bit in disarray. I wonder if the Griffiths people will provide these new condensers? I'm currently looking around here for a good AC shop to do the filling. After reading on the Griffiths site I'll bet there are not many shops with that level of knowledge especially around here, San Jose CA area. It can't be that I have to drive to New Jersey or Florida to get a good job done, maybe I do. I'm not sure I need the ultimate 34F cold air, if it gets cold enough to be comfortable on I5 during the summer, that's about all I need. What would be helpful is if the place I buy the kit from can call and "check out" the shop that will do the evac. and fill service/etc.

[schamp]

I sent you a pm regarding a condenser for my 75. Waiting to hear a price. Thanks.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

Could you give us the dimensions for your FRONT condensor. I am looking to see if it will fit in the front oil cooler position of the 73 rs type front spoiler. I currently use a factory front condensor in this space.
I think Boba is also looking at a similar solution.

Howdy RSTarga,

Thank you for your question!

its a hair over 6 inches wide and length about 22 inches or so.

But this PFC wont fit; its made for under and between the front wheels of a 911, 912, 930 FROM 1963 to 1989.

You are the second person who has asked me about a PFC for the front oil cooler space (probably Boba) for riding adjacent in the rectangle to the Oil Cooler on an RS.

To be honest and I always am; although I could make a PFC that would perfectly fit this space, the developmental time and engineering cost are not really worth it to me for my return on investment, because there are so few RS's, and I could only sell a few each year at most,

FYI; I am pretty busy with other current projects already, and I am also considering other projects as well, which show promise in far larger markets

Best regards,

Reid

PS MAYBE i WILL CHANGE MY MIND AND MAKE THEM FOR RSTs / RSs IN THE FUTURE

I am strongly thinking about making some for the 91-92 plus years & TURBOs that have the huge intercooler intake, the also including C2/C4s and those that might want/need fender units very soon;

[ratpiper71T]

Sent you a pm as well. I have been following this thread with interest.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by ratpiper71T

Sent you a pm as well. I have been following this thread with interest.

I need to say this to all people who have an early 911 Porsche body that did not come with Air Conditioning

At Least for my Front Condenser or even a Front Porsche OEM 5 inch wide condenser

These early Porsche Cars MAY NEED SOME MINOR MODIFICATION IN THE FORWARD UNDER SIDE BODY AREA TO ALLOW EVEN A PORSCHE FACTORY FRONT CONDENSER TO BE INSTALLED!!!

For this you need to have the front underside of your of your 911 or 912 car ALSO even a 914 looked at by a Porsche mechanic TO ADVISE YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO INSTALL A/C for the first time on your car.
=================================


Or maybe you can search the internet for this information to get some answers

It is my hope that one of the A/C repair experts with early year Porsche experience or someone with experience on older cars will write here about this and share their experience and knowledge on these cars for what will be needed

As for the Rear deck lid condenser I think my contour rear deck lid condenser will fit your deck lid because I think the main part of the OEM deck lid's where the rear A/C condenser can go are basically the same for 63-1989 911/912/930 model years;

But I really do not know for sure yet and if anyone does and I am wrong please let me know, I do not want to accidently misslead someone because of my lack of knowledge

================================================== ========

Porsche 911 Did the 1971 Porsche 911T Targa include air conditioning - JustAnswer

Porsche 911 Did the 1971 Porsche 911T Targa include air conditioning

Submitted: 143 days and 10 hours ago.
Category: Classic Car Value: $30 Status: CLOSED Optional Information
Country: Canada
Make: Porsche
Model: 911
Year: 1971

Accepted Answer


DR. Hamman : Hi, I will do my best to assist you. When you are finished please click on accept. I don't get paid unless you do. I don't know if you are a pro or a novice so we may have to fine tune the answer. I only know as much about your problem as you have told me in your post, so my answer will be based on what you have posted. Feel free to add any additional info you feel is needed.

In 71 the 911T was the base model, and the Targa option was an upgrade, but it didn’t include AC. AC was a rare option for a 911T because most of the time if a 911 had lots of options it would be the mid range 911E, or the 911S which was the top end of the model lineup. AC was available as an option on the 911T, but it is a very rare option on the T model. I rebuilt an engine on one of these in the late 70's and the AC complicates the engine compartment As I remember, the compressor was on the drivers side. The Targa option is also fairly rare on a 71 T model, not near as rare as the AC though. If you have any more questions I am here to help. Good luck, and Thanks for using Just Answer.

I hope this helps, 100% satisfaction is my goal. If the answer is not clear, please reply and I will assist you more. When you're satisfied, click on accept. I don't get paid unless you do. A bonus and positive feedback are always appreciated, good luck and Thanks.





Expert: DR. Hamman
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I have 30 years experience repairing, restoring, and customizing cars, and pickup trucks.

Ask this Expert a Question > Related Classic Car Questions
Question Date Submitted
Porsche 911T Ive inherited a 1971 porsche 911T. Its in 7/5/2011

[KelogGes]

I want to say something again about this picture I had uploaded almost a month ago

I said when I uploaded it that "IT IS STATE OF THE ART EXTRUSION TECHNOLOGY"

THIS STATEMENT IS NOT COMPLETLY CORRECT!!!

What I should have said IS
"IT "WAS" STATE OF THE ART EXTRUSION TECHNOLOGY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO"
+++

"It"s NOT WHAT I USE TODAY!"
++++++++++++++++++++

"THIS MICROCHANNEL TECHNOLOGY "IS OLD" COMPARED TO ANY OF THE MICRO-CHANNAL TECHNOLOGY THAT I USE IN THE PFC's I MAKE"

FYI I am unfortunately prevented from discussing ANY SPECIFICS ABOUT THE STATE OF ART TECHNOLGY'S I AM USING IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF MY CONDENSERS for obvious reasons

But I will say this because you might like to know;

I am in contact with several micro-channel extrusion materials manufacturers worldwide; this technology is sometimes being updated DAILY, sometimes several times in a day worldwide, and new patents related to this technology are flying to the forefront of known knowledge, due to public patent disclosure and it is simply amazing what is going on in this field scientifically related to heat exchanger coils to say the least.

Regardless of what I might be doing at the moment with what I am making today, I have the unique ability and knowledge to switch to a new technology the next moment in time to the latest state of the art technologies the moment it becomes available and to change what I am doing in a heartbeat.

My competitors who try to reverse engineer and/or try to steal what I do’ i have a surprise in store for them, because it’s easy for me to render anything I have made in the past immediately obsolete the moment I discover it, with a newer far more efficient design the next day.

For my business competitors who developed their own products and designs I welcome this and intend to have a good and friendly relationship with them!!!

Most Important I want to say I care about people; and also we owners of these fine older Porsche cars have suffered long enough and I am determined doing something about it for US ALL!!!

See what can happen when someone gets angry when they know something exists to make their 911 a/c colder then is made for 4 years AND they can not buy it anywhere and are forced to make it themselves. .

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever expect to be making heat exchangers for other Porsche owners, but thanks to you guys here @pelican forum this is what I have decided am going to continue to do; and I vow to make them as best ! can to the highest standards of and to the memory of Dr. Ferdinand Porsche and for the owners Who are lucky enough to have them.

Who knows maybe after I am gone someone will remember I tried to contribute something to make life a little better when we drive our wonderful Porsche car

Reid

Originally Posted by KelogGes

This picture shows a cross section of the latest state of the art type of Micro-Channel aluminium Extrusion technology I use in my condensers

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by schamp

I sent you a pm regarding a condenser for my 75. Waiting to hear a price. Thanks.

I sent it let know if you did not recieve

Reid

[schamp]

Reid,
Yes, I got it. Thanks. I will most likely be a customer very soon. My 75 doesn't have a front condenser just the rear. And I expect it came that way from the factory. Either way, it has to be better than whats there now and what hasn't worked in years. Spencer

[ratpiper71T]

KelogGes, what are your thoughts on replacing the compressor with a scroll-type vs. the 507, I've heard they're more efficient and sap less power from the engine- obviously this would require a custom bracket of some type...

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by schamp

Reid,
Yes, I got it. Thanks. I will most likely be a customer very soon. My 75 doesn't have a front condenser just the rear. And I expect it came that way from the factory. Either way, it has to be better than whats there now and what hasn't worked in years. Spencer

Front Condenser:

I am surprised you don’t have a front condenser because it is the same year as mine and yours is also a Silver Anniversary Model, but maybe you’re a/c was not factory or authorized dealer installed, and/or unless someone who owned it before you, had it installed because it never came with A/C?

However I am the 4rd owner, my 1975 I have owned for somewhere between 15 to 20 years and I have been told by people who know Porsche A/Cs that mine was a dealer installed Porsche factory option after the car was shipped originally from Germany to California to the dealer without A/C and the original new owner wanted OEM factory air so the factory authorized dealer in California installed it instead of the factory in Stuttgart using OEM Stuttgart parts, i.e. BEHR and Porsche parts.

About Front condensers on pre 1989 911s, without going into a lot of 911 history problems I have read about and everyone knows about; the front condenser makes a big difference further increasing the condenser efficiency phase change of the high pressure hot gas to liquid of the A/C system coming fromg the rear condener in the 180 plus degree hot engine comportment; even when using R-12 which was originally used and much colder then and more efficient then R134A Freon. One of the many reasons the car needs the front condenser I do not have time today to elaborate i.e is stop and go traffic and at idle it really makes a big difference; furthermore the more condenser surface area the A/C system has the better it works to further cool the gas coming from the rear deck lid condenser to phase change the refrigerant high pressure gas to LIQUID your evaporator NEEDS AND IS STARVING FOR IN ORDER TO MAKE COLD!

YOU ALSO NEED BLOWER FANS FOR THIS “BLOWING AIR THROUGH THE CONDENSERS” NOT AROUND IT to make the condenser work good and do its job!!! OR you shoot yourself in the foot!

911s prior to late model 1989 all had a A/C design flaw; the car BODY never was designed to be used for ANY A/C system; and this was never changed by Porsche from 1963 to early 1989; when Porsche finally changed the original body design, and completely changed the classic 911 to a new car design and in my opinion ruined the beauty of classic 911 forevermore.

911s prior to late model 1989, All A/C systems are/were extremely starved for adequate condenser surface area from day one, and this is why Porsche finally added the front condenser to cars shipped to the USA sometime I believe in 1974 model year and still it sucked and people continued to sweat driving when the outside ambient temps increased above maybe 80-85f or so. Porsche even came out with a BELLY PAN full width under the car condenser to be used in addition to the already being used rear and front condensers which only helped a little better back in the R12 days but not very well, where it gets hot driving. The BELLYPAN had no fans, and picked up road heat from the road a few inches under the BELLYPAN condenser option.

The car has been cursed with inefficient a/c CONDENSERS since Porsche first made AC work in 911s;, it got cool but not cold in warmer climates because their was not enough room for adequate condenser heat exchanger surface area.



Were I live in Fort Lauderdale in south Florida due to the high humidity caused by being in the equator TROPIC ZONE is one of the worst places in the USA that extremely taxes the efficiency of any A/C system to say the least, because although we regularly get an ambient temp heat of 91F the evaporators here cant evaporate effiencly like they can in lower humidify areas and are daytime heat index temp is equal to 120 plus degrees F and sometimes its this way day and night regardless of if the sun is shining or not, god I dread August and September here lol its simply THE PITS! MOST people don’t know but it is actually feels cooler for humans in places where it gets very hot ambient temps i.e over 115-125 like the desert hot places in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and the areas of the Mohave Desert in California; because THIS IS DRY HEAT WITH ALMOST NO HUMIDITY compared to here here in the tropics; because when we sweat here the sweat says on the skin trying to cool the body so that body sweats more and more but the body cooling is minimal and you stay wet, in these hot arid places when you sweat the moisture your body produces is quickly sucked off your body by the extremely dry air in the desert and it cools your body! HERE IT DOES NOT like it does in the desert or arid places!!!

The patent pending condensers I have designed and am making completely revolutionizes the cooling effect potential of every late model 1989 and earlier year 911


Compressor

I replaced my original piston type York piston compressor with a Sanden and with a mounting adapter I bought from Vertex in Miami more then 10 years ago, and about 6 months ago I replaced my different model Sanden with a new fully chrome plated Sanden 507 I bought off eBay for about 200 after talking to several people about it, and making sure it was a USA factory made model and not the ones made in china factories. I am very satisfied with the 507 I am using. FYI I was in a large a/c compressor rebuild shop recently looking to find special aluminum 0-ring connection fittings I could modify to use for braising on to my condenser designs and I got into a conversation with the manager of the compressor rebuild shop about my Sanden 507and he told me after rebuilding 10s of thousands of all the different models of compressors Sanden 507 is one of the best he has ever seen for many technical reasons he told me about, even though the 507 model has not been made very long.

Before I bought the Sanden 507, I researched compressors on the internet for weeks and everywhere I read sandon 507s were considered the best compressor for the money, and it compared to compressors that cost many times more. What is also nice is there is an aluminum adaptor kit made for this compressor made by Sanden that fits 911s,912s/930s. Porsche factory have newer replacement upgrades to the York piston compressor that is a newer type non piston rotary type available for these same early model Porsches and with it a much higher cost (ouch ).

So I do not know what to say about this compressor you are telling me about?

I could get you into a discussion about rotary vane compressors, versus the new wobble plate designs, piston and several other high end different types of refrigeration compressors that can cost well over 2 grand and much more but I think you should get what is proven to work well and I would suggest you get what the majority of the Porsche after market people are using that has been proven to work well and is the most cost effective.

I more than welcome anyone reading what I said to also feel free to give your experienced opinion to help 911 owners here!!! And most of all please correct me if I am wrong or don’t have something quite correct!

To the readers of this forum tread please know that there are some of the very best and well known experts in Porsche A/C technology reading here in the background that sometimes post excellent advice (I won"t identify so they can retain their privacy)

I think that when I start making kits available soon I will offer Sanden 507 wobble plate compressors because my experiences with them and of their aftermarket proven 911 track record and their popularity and price

[Joeaksa]

Hey Reid,

You need to post here: if you could build "The Ultimate" A/C system from scratch...

Joe A

[tops911]

are you making these for 930s?

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by tops911

are you making these for 930s?

YES!

! make them for for 930s

This is exactly what my PFCs were designed for


I guess you have not read what I have posted in this forum?

[tops911]

Sorry, I must have missed that...... I got lost in all the posts
Thanks Frank