I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[KelogGes]

I AM NOT PROMOTING THESE DEVICES TO ANY ONE!!! I ONLY GAVE VERY LIMITED INFORMATION ABOUT!!!
My post was only factual information of something that will work EXTREMELY WELL to pull an acceptable A/C SYSTEM Vacuum and included disclaimers, and furthermore specifically stated I will not discuss how the use them for A/C purposes; because they are illegal for me to use them on an automotive system because I am Licenesed, but might not be for some of the readers here depending on their local government laws!!!

I agree with you that anything that comes from harbor freight is CHEAP Chinese Throw away CRAP but I emphatically disagree with you that any simple air powered vacuum pump using the same exact technology is a piece of crap!!! They are one of the best hundreds of years old inventions in the world!~

Maybe you just got a defective one as often times happens with China crap? And if it was defective you could have easily exchanged it or returned it and tried another one. I am rather surprised it did not work really good for you, the design is almost full proof as there are no moving parts in it. I have given a few of these away to friends who are refrigeration or mechanical technicians and they all tell me the love them to pull down a refrigeration system that has be already opened.


Respectfully to the readers here Do you EVEN Know what an EDUCTOR or EJECTOR IS???????????
Did you know Snap On tools has a similar technology device they sell that costs I think a bit over $300 or do as compared to the one I posted that is sold for less than twenty bucks?

I am a marine engineer & I have been using similar devices in the marine engineering industries for more than 30 years for all kinds of applications, not just related to A/C;

ANY mechanical engineer on the planet knows about Educators & Ejectors in their first year in school

It’s obvious most people are rather ignorant of the value and hundreds of years use of vacuum ejectors!

i.e Have you ever even seen or know about an ammonia refrigeration/ice making/freezing or A/C system????

Respectfully Apparently several comments here people are unfortunately ignorant of refrigerant evacuation and transfer equipment & methods used worldwide for the last 200 plus years.

i.e. Ammonia was among the early refrigerants used in mechanical systems, and it's the only one of the early refrigerants to secure a lasting role as a refrigerant. Mechanical refrigeration was developed in the 1800s based on the principle of vapor compression. The first practical refrigerating machine using vapor compression was developed in 1834 and by the late 1800s refrigeration systems were being used in breweries and cold storage warehouses. The basic design of the vapor compressor refrigeration system, using ammonia as a refrigerant in a closed cycle of evaporation, compression, condensation, and expansion, has changed very little since the early 1900s.

How do you think from 1834 before electricity and electric vacuum pumps was invented moisture was removed from ammonia refrigeration systems???
Answer educators and ejectors!

when I am working on what is in the maritime industry called a “DEAD SHIP” (no generator no electricity, no engines, no battery , NO NADA except the compressed air stored for emergencies as well as for starting the main engines or generators in usually 2 large 350 ppsi air tanks) , on a dead ship in emergencies how do you think I transfer HEAVY BUNKER FUEL or diesel oil, remove the water in the bilges to keep the vessel from sinking in an emergency, transfer extremely dangerous liquid & gas cargos that absolutely cannot be pumped with a pump or the transfer would destroy the pump. Speaking of pumps how do you think I prime pumps that have lost their prime and are not self priming pumps or are self prim but wont self prim due to seal damage on a DEAD SHIP?????????????????

Give up YET?

YEP the same exact same 300 plus year old technology you state here DOES NOT WORK AND IS JUNK you can make with a couple of pieces of any kind of pipe or tubing and put a T in the line and do some amazing things

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST ya ever heard of this little company called PARKER, that is one of the largest A/C manufacturing companies in the world?
And do you know what this is made by this little company called PARKER>>>Parker - VACUUM EJECTORS


Open your minds instead of slamming it shut because you are ignorant of something very useful, and go do a little reading about educators and ejectors they are one of the simplest inventions of all time, rarely clog and if they do they are extremely easy to clean, are easy to make yourself, they will last almost forever, and furthermore have hundreds of uses you will be amazed at if you learn about them including the ability to pull an excellent vacuum on an A/C System.


Best regards,

marine engineers do it better in the water

[brads911sc]

Good luck Reid.

[KelogGes]

ACtion Magazine - May 2012

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

because they are illegal for me to use them on an automotive system

Then why in the heck would you suggest such a thing to any Pelikaner?

As a registered techincian, it would seem to me like you should only ever suggest the legal recourse for any DIY AC install.

Yet another reason why folks should only choose an established, reputable Porsche aftermarket AC provider. Like Rennaire or Griffiths.

Both of which recommend high vacuum on the system, using modern vacuum-producing technology.

[kuehl]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Thank you kuehl for replying to my 2 questions , your knowledge regarding this is just fine and answered my questions with good honest answers!

Does this mean you are going to turn off the bright lights and put away the sodium thiopental ?

Originally Posted by KelogGes

The reason I asked I thought they were dreaming

Tap the ruby shoes 3 times. Welcome to Kansas.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

My second question to you was unrelated to my first and I know was a little odd... I had a strong feeling you would tell me you have no knowledge related to my second question but you never know so this is why I asked.
I am sure you have seen me say from time to time I think outside the box, this is one of those times I am thinking outside the box. This might be a stupid crazy group of thinking that may be useless I have had that has brought me to a conclusion; but I have found sometimes my crazy thinking in my life can lead to some interesting breakthroughs in doing something very simple that is different than normally done because no one ever thought about it different and was over looked for ages that is actually beneficial. Twist your head and think about this for a moment

Say again?

Originally Posted by KelogGes

if the high pressure high temp line is routed first directly into a metal heat exchanging metal tube line exposed to air runs and then goes next forward to the far distant front condenser and/or either a front lip condenser or say i.e. one of your fender/bumper type units and whatever blower fans can be used to facilitate the heat exchange aspect in these much cooler ambient air temp areas first (compared to the very hot engine compartment) and this line pre-cooled in a much cooler area then at first normally is; then ran all the way back to the rear again to the largest condenser in the engine compartment wouldn’t this pre-cooled high pressure line condense even faster and/or better and even further when back to rear deck lid condenser before/or as it next goes again forward as a heat exchanging metal liquid tube line to the filter dryer and evaporator?

You mean something like this?

Originally Posted by KelogGes

It would be interesting to see your reply, as for me I really do not know the answer to this question until someone tries this but I think this may have merit?

Priceless!



If you are right, take the humble side -- you will help the other fellow. If you are wrong, take the humble side -- and you will help yourself.

[KelogGes]

Personally I strongly believe Serpentine a/c Condensers for 911 Porsches Obsolete compared to the Parallel Flow Micro-Channel technology I use!

Every new car automotive manufacture in the world to the best of my knowledge has abandoned Serpentine a/c Condensers and switched for good reasons to Parallel Flow Micro-Channel technology !

I offer this proof to ANY Nay Sayers as only 2 examples of respected Scientific Test Comparison Studies and Examples among thousands of readily available worldwide via the internet that definitively render Serpentine Old-fashioned less efficient technology compared to Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers technologies

http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1640&context=iracc


http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2025&context=iracc

If you disagree with proven scientific facts prove it with scientific facts in a friendly way!

[KelogGes]

Note: in test examples> http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2025&context=iracc

CTHX = continuous tube (serpentine) heat exchanger

PFHX=parallel flow heat exchanger

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Personally I strongly believe Serpentine a/c Condensers for 911 Porsches Obsolete compared to the Parallel Flow Micro-Channel technology I use!

Every new car automotive manufacture in the world to the best of my knowledge has abandoned Serpentine a/c Condensers and switched for good reasons to Parallel Flow Micro-Channel technology !

I offer this proof to ANY Nay Sayers as only 2 examples of respected Scientific Test Comparison Studies and Examples among thousands of readily available worldwide via the internet that definitively render Serpentine Old-fashioned less efficient technology compared to Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers technologies

http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1640&context=iracc


http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2025&context=iracc

If you disagree with proven scientific facts prove it with scientific facts in a friendly way!

[wwest]

Reid, Unless I have missed something no one here has cast any doubts about the workability of your design project, nor the probability that your new design will improve the efficiency of ANY previously installed rear deck lid or front lip condensor.

That being said I suspect that the market has passed you by. Given th obvious limitations of the factory design regarding the location of those 2 condensors I would think you would have gone directly, as others already have, to a design using a "fender" location but inclusive of a good fan.

[brads911sc]

1. cost? for each component? as well as in the kit? What is included in your kit? For example, If I change my condenser, Ill also need a drier and expansion valve. Will you sell the drier or will you have a vendor you work with on that? It would be pointless to change a condenser and not change old leaky hoses and o-rings. I guanantee you Reid, if you sell a condener, and a user doesnt get the performance you are advertising, they WILL blame you and your condenser. That is why Griff and Rennaire sell kits and why they disacourage small incremental changes unless everything has been upgraded already. Good way to gain a poor (word of mouth) reputation... not to mention lawsuits and returns.

2. weight?

3. selling points over a well designed kit by Griff and Rennaire who have already proven 35 degree temps WITH 95 degree ambients and "OLD" technology. for anyone who has ice cold AC in a hot climate and has spent $$ why would they dump a working system? Just because its newer technology?

4. What problem are you trying to solve? Does your product solve that problem? Poor vent temps are not a problem... Griff already solved that. So what is the problem this addresses? Is it the Griff cost? Can you really make a product that will last 10 years, provide 35 degree vent temps, and charge the consumer less than $289?

5. Have you done a market study/analysis? How many pre 89 911's are registered today, how many have an aftermarket kit like Griff? How many of the owners have owned their car for over 5 years (they probably wouldnt spend the $$ if they havent spent it in the first 5 years). What is your breakeven point for production numbers? Assume a $300 price point.

6. Have you prepared a technical Q&A with ALL questions answered?

7. Filter vs No Filter? if you site a list of filters from 20 years ago that doesnt fit a car made after 1998, you lose credibility. If you site AC manufacturers and words like "every" and "all" when in fact 5 of the 6 top manufactures (Toyota, VW, Honda, Ford, Chrysler) use no such device, you lose credibility. In fact, the ONLY car manufacturer that actually uses a filter in a post 2005 car is GM.

8. Fans vs No Fans?

9. Proof of your products superiority? if you site research for Serpentine Vs Yours and it doesnt even compare Serpentine but rather tube and fin, you lose credibility.

10. Non-Barrier hose issue? you give us pictures of a chinese vacuum pump and just tell us to add refrigerant every year? Seriously? That is not a solution.

We keep asking the same questions over and over again. and we keep getting NON-ANSWERS and research that doesnt even relate to the questions.
We are not idiots Reid. We can read. We can google. We can ask a Pro who has done this 1000 times. How many times have you done this? As much as a hard time as I give WWest, the guy actually designed an AC system. So stop trying to snow us by jumping from topic to topic and answer the questions...

nuff said.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by wwest

Reid, Unless I have missed something no one here has cast any doubts about the workability of your design project, nor the probability that your new design will improve the efficiency of ANY previously installed rear deck lid or front lip condensor.

That being said I suspect that the market has passed you by. Given th obvious limitations of the factory design regarding the location of those 2 condensors I would think you would have gone directly, as others already have, to a design using a "fender" location but inclusive of a good fan.

In addition (though I might have missed it in all the difficult-to-follow discourse [paragraphs and punctuation are your friends, Reid]), I haven't yet seen an answer to the question of how much additional latent heat from your full-width/totally sealed rear decklid condenser will affect engine cooling and intake air temp.

You seem to be fixated on the PFC efficiency issue w/o responding to the (very legitimate IMHO) questions others have raised re: the systemic efficiency of your HVAC system or its effects on other (e.g., intake air temp or engine cooling) systems.

Until you stop ignoring these legitimate issues I can't view your claims with much credibility.

[brads911sc]

This is really the only problem no system really solves... And it seems his "solution " will actually make this worse... A solution in search of a problem is what I see...

Originally Posted by Flat Six

In addition (though I might have missed it in all the difficult-to-follow discourse [paragraphs and punctuation are your friends, Reid]), I haven't yet seen an answer to the question of how much additional latent heat from your full-width/totally sealed rear decklid condenser will affect engine cooling and intake air temp.

You seem to be fixated on the PFC efficiency issue w/o responding to the (very legitimate IMHO) questions others have raised re: the systemic efficiency of your HVAC system or its effects on other (e.g., intake air temp or engine cooling) systems.

Until you stop ignoring these legitimate issues I can't view your claims with much credibility.

[ewave]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Note: in test examples> http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2025&context=iracc

CTHX = continuous tube (serpentine) heat exchanger

PFHX=parallel flow heat exchanger

Reid,

Thanks for the link. That's a great experimental test of PFHX's.

Since you brought this study up, I assume you would like to discuss the results.

Out of the 6 PFHX's that were tested how many of them actually performed better than the CTHX as a condenser? (scientifically speaking of course....)

[KelogGes]

Due to several requests from 911 owners over the past year from hot climates with extreme ambient heat, and much consideration, I have decided to custom manufacture a new product line of State of the Art DESERT DUTY Parallel Flow Micro Channel condensers for Porsche 911’s

When I decide to make them available to the public in the future they will be made available either in a choice of single or dual core PFC

No more information regarding this announce is available at this time

[brads911sc]

Originally Posted by ewave

Reid,

Thanks for the link. That's a great experimental test of PFHX's.

Since you brought this study up, I assume you would like to discuss the results.

Out of the 6 PFHX's that were tested how many of them actually performed better than the CTHX as a condenser? (scientifically speaking of course....)

Here is a good summary...

"However, there still exist the engineering problems such as condensate drainage, refrigerant distribution and frosting control to be solved in order to extend PFHX’s
application to evaporator and heat pump in future."

[brads911sc]

LOL. Just LOL

Reid, pretty sure Rennaire has the "desert duty" name trademarked. Im sure Jeff or Cab would have something to say about this. Id be careful. maybe you should call it a Fender Cat instead.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Due to several requests from 911 owners over the past year from hot climates with extreme ambient heat, and much consideration, I have decided to custom manufacture a new product line of State of the Art DESERT DUTY Parallel Flow Micro Channel condensers for Porsche 911’s

When I decide to make them available to the public in the future they will be made available either in a choice of single or dual core PFC

No more information regarding this announce is available at this time

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

LOL. Just LOL

Reid, pretty sure Rennaire has the "dessert duty" name trademarked. Im sure Jeff or cab would have something to say about this. Id be careful. maybe you should call it a Fender Cat instead.

LOL.

Aaaaand, we're back to the beginning of the circle. Shall we go around one more time?

[brads911sc]

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Flat Six

In addition (though I might have missed it in all the difficult-to-follow discourse [paragraphs and punctuation are your friends, Reid]), I haven't yet seen an answer to the question of how much additional latent heat from your full-width/totally sealed rear decklid condenser will affect engine cooling and intake air temp.

You seem to be fixated on the PFC efficiency issue w/o responding to the (very legitimate IMHO) questions others have raised re: the systemic efficiency of your HVAC system or its effects on other (e.g., intake air temp or engine cooling) systems.

Until you stop ignoring these legitimate issues I can't view your claims with much credibility.

Howdy Flat Six,

I was not ignoring you!!! You asked a very important question!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry I missed your question, there have been so many people just posting off topic things & crap here lately and others adding to the crap reposting quoted over and over it has gotten very difficult to read this tread for not only you, but also even me!

If you had read all my posts to this tread from the very beginning and kept reading you would not have to ask this question related to oil temp, and heat rise caused by the PFC’s, because I specifically address this issue more than once.

regardless

On my 1975 911 last summer, In 92-95F ambient temps @ 99 % humidity and air vent temps constantly putting out in the low to mid 30s using R-134A, the engine compartment heat rise and engine OIL Temps was negligible heat rise over stock Porsche OEM components running R-12. Engine Oil temps always remained at no more than upper temp safe levels in all types of driving i.e. extended highway, expressways, road ways, side streets including stop and go driving.

Furthermore in the 2 other 911’s Justin Stokes did installs of my PFC’s and testing (pictures are posted in the tread) again the heat rise to the engine oil temps was Negligible oil temp heat rise that remained within normal safe ranges.

If you need to talk to Justin Stokes owner of Stokes Automotive here in Fort Lauderdale I can arrange this for you!

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

LOL. Just LOL

Reid, pretty sure Rennaire has the "desert duty" name trademarked. Im sure Jeff or Cab would have something to say about this. Id be careful. maybe you should call it a Fender Cat instead.

well the next time I talk to Cab or Jeff I will ask them just for fun and tell them what you said to me!!! ROF CAB DOES NOT OWN THIS!!!!
Why dont you check facts before you say things that are false

hellooooo BTW I have no intention of using the words desert duty for a product name!, where you get these ideas is beyond me!!!

[tazzieman]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Furthermore in the 2 other 911’s Justin Stokes did installs of my PFC’s and testing (pictures are posted in the tread) again the heat rise to the engine oil temps was Negligible oil temp heat rise that remained within normal safe ranges.

There are many different aircooled 911s out there , with varied equipment levels and states of tune. The scientists amongst us would concur the sample size is far too small to be meaningful. Your exciting results remain anecdotal at this stage.