I make Parallel Flow Micro-Channel Condensers for 911's front and rear

[brads911sc]

I've seen you use the "desert duty" term several times in several posts. If its a trademarked name, you cant use it even in conversation to describe your product unless you want to find yourself with cease and desist orders. ever notice the fine print on just about any site just by using the "Porsche" name to describe what a product fits? They arent just adding that language for kicks...
I was just pointing out that you shouldnt refer to your product as a "desert duty" anything... esp since that is a Rennaire product that is sold right here on Pelican.
of course im stupid and you knew that... sorry for mentioning it. your team of lawyers informed you I'm sure.

I notice that my 8-10 questions, that 10 people have asked at various times in your 2-3 threads still go unanswered.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

well the next time I talk to Cab or Jeff I will ask them just for fun and tell them what you said to me!!!

hellooooo I have no intention of using the words desert duty for a product name!, where you get these ideas is beyond me!!!

[brcorp]

This is like "The Housewives of Atlanta" (or whatever dumb show my wife watches that I hate) - If people quit watching then the show will stop......

[brads911sc]

I'm pretty sure if Pelican was around, Motor Sheister wouldn't have gotten so popular. Dont like it. Dont read it. There are alot of valid points raised.. and every time there is a hard question, a new sales pitch about something else is made. No one is attacking Reid. Answer the questions. prove your product works.. and you will not have any detractors. I'm all for innovation. But every question is avoided or answered in circles.

Originally Posted by brcorp

This is like "The Housewives of Atlanta" (or whatever dumb show my wife watches that I hate) - If people quit watching then the show will stop......

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by tazzieman

There are many different aircooled 911s out there , with varied equipment levels and states of tune. The scientists amongst us would concur the sample size is far too small to be meaningful. Your exciting results remain anecdotal at this stage.

where do you see or read anything i have designed or made or prototyped yet for an intercooled 911 here???

[scottb]

Originally Posted by tazzieman

Your exciting results remain anecdotal at this stage.

I'll repeat a suggestion I made earlier -- Reid, when you have production versions ready for market, give a set to a Pelican who has remained out of this fray, and let him install the PFCs on his car and report back to the group. You're in a forum of DIY guys, so let a qualified DIYer install your products and report back to you and everyone else. If you're as confident in your products as you seem to be, then this is a no-brainer. It costs you a few dollars to produce the PFCs and ship them, but in the long run you'll get a beta-tester's report that will either support your claims or, well, not.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not angling for a free set of condensers. But there are plenty of other Pelicans who are knowledgeable a/c guys who would be good candidates to beta-test your products.

My $.02. Now, back to our regularly scheduled flame war!

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by scottb

I'll repeat a suggestion I made earlier -- Reid, when you have production versions ready for market, give a set to a Pelican who has remained out of this fray, and let him install the PFCs on his car and report back to the group. You're in a forum of DIY guys, so let a qualified DIYer install your products and report back to you and everyone else. If you're as confident in your products as you seem to be, then this is a no-brainer. It costs you a few dollars to produce the PFCs and ship them, but in the long run you'll get a beta-tester's report that will either support your claims or, well, not.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not angling for a free set of condensers. But there are plenty of other Pelicans who are knowledgeable a/c guys who would be good candidates to beta-test your products.

My $.02. Now, back to our regularly scheduled flame war!

Thanks Scott, I know your honestly trying to be helpful! I saw what you said before just did not reply. Been too busy

not sure Pelican gets involved with kind of thing like you suggest? Regardless I have other local interested 911 owners here already in the que to get their installs done that will be published

But fyi, I called and spoke to the person incharge of bringing in new products at Pelican over a week ago, AGAIN, to discuss listing my products, and he is SO BUSY working 2 jobs at once and said it will be a couple of weeks more before he can call me back to discuss things with him.

Not sure but thinking of maybe instead using someplace slse?

2 weeks plus waiting to talk to someone here and summer a/c few months prime season has already started

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

where do you see or read anything i have designed or made or prototyped yet for an intercooled 911 here???

Who said anything about "intercooled" anywhere? (Except you, just now.)

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by ewave

Reid,

Thanks for the link. That's a great experimental test of PFHX's.

Since you brought this study up, I assume you would like to discuss the results.

Out of the 6 PFHX's that were tested how many of them actually performed better than the CTHX as a condenser? (scientifically speaking of course....)

Most respectfully; No dont have time and dont care too; there are literally thousands of other proof example technical papers that back up what i said, and the scientific papers of fact speak for Themselves, your welcome to contact the authors to discuss with them if that is your interest, their contact information is listed

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

... crap reposting quoted over and over...

LOL, Reid, LOL.

[ewave]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Most respectfully; No dont have time and dont care too; there are literally thousands of other proof example technical papers that back up what i said, and the scientific papers of fact speak for Themselves, your welcome to contact the authors to discuss with them if that is your interest, their contact information is listed

Ok. I'll answer for you, as it would appear that you didn't read or understand the information in that study.

What the research indicated was that two of the PFHX's had a condensation capacity of only 5% to 8% better than the CTHX,

One had a condensation capacity about the same as the CTHX,

Three had LOWER capacities, by roughly 9.5%, 17% and 20%.

The point here being, (and I would have thought you would be interested in this since you seem to be trying to design a condenser that works better than the original Porsche condenser) just because you are using a Parallel Flow Micro Channel Condenser does not mean that the condenser will actually perform better than the Original fin-and-tube condenser.

Why exactly did you link to that study?

[brads911sc]

my guess is that he didn't even read that study or if he did, didn't understand it, or perhaps hoped no one here would. I think it was mixed at best. Certainly isn't going to bolster sales.

i think in some applications it probably is better. I think every technology has its weak and strong applications... i would need to be convinced with extensive testing that it is truly better in the 911. Not just on paper... but in real world testing.

What do you say, Reid? and don't bring up your 37 degree vent temps to make your sale and tell us what problem you are solving. every system on the market achieves that...

Originally Posted by ewave

Why exactly did you link to that study?

[scottb]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

not sure Pelican gets involved with kind of thing like you suggest? Regardless I have other local interested 911 owners here already in the que to get their installs done that will be published.

Reid: I think you're missing my points. (A) This doesn't need to involve Pelican Parts. Simply connect with someone on the BBS and ship him the parts. It's a private transaction between you and him. (B) The concept here is an independent review of your PFCs and the claims you're making about them. "Local interest" is meaningless because you're involved in the process. For example (and, again, I'm not angling for free condensers), if you were to ship condensers to me in California, I'd install them, have a local a/c shop with Porsche expertise vacuum down the system and recharge it, and then I'd report back to you and the rest of the group. By taking yourself out of the process, you're giving the results credibility.

Frankly, as I said earlier, if your products are as good as you say they are, this should be a no-brainer. Your seeming unwillingness to have an independent review of the PFCs is troubling...and it will hinder your ability to win over the obvious skepticism you're battling here.

[KelogGes]

I have a customer who wants a matched set of my PFC's call me yesterday that lives in the desert and has ambient temps often exceed 115 F plus in the summer and I want to help him make his 911 cold so I am posting some things we are talk about here for him I will call some tips and tricks that were found here on Pelican

The black plastic evaporator box in the hot smugglers box is not insulated at ALL DUH! Here are some pictures of one type of insulation material that can be attached to the outside of the plastic case Rennair promotes, its insulation and insulating the outside of the plastic evap box will keep cold inside and keep heat outside far better then no insulation does. I personally do not like this insulation material for several reasons and much better insulation can be found on Ebay THAT IS thin BLACK material bonded to thin aluminium which has already has an adhesive on it RenAires type does not and is far better then what I have shown in the pictures. Anway the Ebay thin back insulstion for example is used for automotive speaker sound proofing and also for interier automotove passanger compartment both sound deadining as well as temperature insulation and is availible in either bright aluinum or in dull black and these I consider excellent; however you can also use simple black cork tape (used to insilate outside of thermal expansion valves) or cut sheets and can be found also be found at Grainger for example


Furthermore your evaporator in my opinion does not need to be replaced if its cleaned both inside and outside properly and will produce fairly good vent temps regardless of what many people say it needs to be replaced with serpintine evap etc

This post does not say the time of year or ambient temps were I suspect when he was in this 911 it was not during the months of June - October??? It was posted here by JFairman written 07-27-2008 here so I would guess his ride was before July? > A/c Expansion Valve...

Originally Posted by JFairman

The superheat adjustment in the X-valve is the brass allen head adjustment you see when looking up the inside of the bottom.

I know talented mechanics that have worked on this alot here in south florida and experimented with it at length, and the superheat adjustment is very definately DIFFERENT for R12 and R134.
They told me they would be VERY angry at me if I said here how far and which direction to turn that allen head... oh well, I have to respect that because it is information they have earned.

I will say that R134 molecules are smaller than R12 molecules so there's a clue...

My friends '87 930 blows at 38 degrees using R134 with the evaporator blower fan on the medium speed setting while it is around 90 degrees out and the car is moving at city driving speeds.

All he did was put in a new nippondenspo compressor, new reciever dryer from pelican parts (not a procooler), a high quality 10" puller fan on the bottom of the origonal rear half bay condensor, and all new barrier hoses.

The origonal R12 condensors front and rear, and origonal evaporator and adjusted x-valve are still in place, and the evaporator box is not wrapped in thermal wrap.
Stahl motorsports in West Palm Beach, Fl. did the X-valve adjustment, flush, evacuation, and R134 charge for him.

I had to ride in the car, feel the very cold air, and see the analog AC thermometer with it's probe in the AC duct to believe it...

Note I live here in south Florida and because its Tropical Climate here its hot & humid enough all year that most people use their A/C's year round.

NOTE: I AM WELL AWARE of adjusting thermal expansions valves to adjust SUPERHEAT to get more liquid liquid refridgerent sent to the evaporator. Those of of US that have good knowledge how to make a/c systems here colder guard secrets and keep them private related to thermal expansion valve adjustment so I am not going to discuss TX valve adjustment here with anyone. If your interested in learning about superheat adjustment via thermal expansion valves go search with google and be prepared to do a lot of reading

DONT ASK ME ABOUT AJUSTING THERMAL EXPANSION VALVES I WILL NOT RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS

This is a complex subject to discuss and I am not going to here

================================================== =

Originally Posted by CBRacerX

So while my car was down for some other projects, I took the plunge and decided to get the AC going again. The original AC worked "OK", but when I put the 3.6 in the car it was set aside. I do need it for comfort - this is my summer street car after all.

So I looked a the options and purchased Rennaire parts to perform the conversion. I will be mixing in at least one Griffiths item - the extra center vent to replace the bow tie, and perhaps others (read on).

I went with the Procooler approach, desert duty front condenser and barrier hose, etc. My install has a few wrinkles:

-RSR 3.8 tail (Getty Design) with no provision to mount a condenser
-964 Case and AC Compressor mount with Varioram intake

So first, the easy stuff - replaced the front condenser, removed the old AC lines. Removed the evaporator unit and installed the new evaporator, then wrapped it up with the foil and foam insulation (that was "fun"). Installed the new expansion valve.




Say what you will about this part from 1987, they didn't seem to go cheap! This is a complicated bit of plumbing.




Of course, it was a very clogged up bit of plumbing as well, at least as far as airflow goes...




The new unit looks a lot simpler!




Starting to wrap the present. This was tedious.




Made seals for the bottom of the box from hardware store stuff

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

There are alot of valid points raised.. and every time there is a hard question, a new sales pitch about something else is made.

Bingo!

And ^^^^^ just in time to prove your point.

[KelogGes]

so they are not spread over several pages

I have a customer who wants a matched set of my PFC's call me yesterday that lives in the desert and has ambient temps often exceed 115 F plus in the summer and I want to help him make his 911 cold so I am posting some things I want to talk about here for him I will call some tips and tricks that were found here on Pelican


When the air vents are lowered to run REALLY COLD to help prevent ICING for extended lengths of time, slightly below and above 32 F I believe it further helps insulating the black plastic evaporator box to help keep the evaporator temps stable from freezing as well as it also helps to further do some tricks to controlling the airflow inside the plastic box to force all incoming air THROUGH THE CENTER of the evaporator so no air flow goes around the outsides of the evaporator which further adds to the efficiency of the evaporator, this can be accomplished by a simple flat plate fabricated with a rectangular opening that is slightly smaller than the outsides of the evaporator the evaporator is set onto and is then sealed to the edges of the insides of the plastic box. This opening servers to more efficiently dump the moisture in the humid air out of the air into water and dropping it faster to the water/moisture condensate drain hole below the evaporator ; and furthermore even more importantly "greatly control the EVAP air movement ONLY THROUGH THE EVAP" and as little as possible going around the outer sides of the evap.

CBRacerX did a fairly good insulation job in preparing his smugglers box!

Making a 911 a/c system REALLY COLD takes a series of several small things and enhancements I call tips and tricks, and each ONE adds small bits to lowering the a/c temp colder and colder. What is nice about this is these tricks are fairly cheap in cost as far as material goes, if you Do all this prep work it can save you money a repair shop would charge you by the hour at shop rate in labor.

But most people just want to get their a/c job done asap so they can quickly get their 911 cold, and is why it ends up costing thousands of dollars for some people.

these are only a couple of tips and tricks that can be done to a 911 a/c system, there are several others that are well known, and again each one drops the a/c temp LOWER in bits and pieces

Originally Posted by CBRacerX

After installing the valve it got wrapped up too.



One I got the box back in the smuggler's compartment, I resealed the intake with the fan resistors.



Rennaire included sealing material in their kit.



Back where it came from.



Obligatory shots of the upgraded unit installed. This was a tight fit but not too bad to reinstall. Working from inside the car to guide the drain tube really helped.



The barrier hoses are installed. I chose to start with getting these on properly then securing them underneath.

[Flat Six]

^^^ WTF?

This rambling is making me dizzy . . . have we now shifted from PFCs to evaporator efficiency?

Reid, at this point you've lost all credibility with me. You may have some valid insight to share, but the total lack of any organization to your communication makes it impossible to find.

If you truly want to discuss the technical merits of whatever the h&ll it is that you're trying to share, then I'd suggest you try to write more concisely and with greater clarity. The stream of consciousness that you've used so far only serves to confuse, and forces the rest of us spend our time trying to decipher what it is you're trying to say rather than focusing our attention on the relative technical merits of the topic.

At this point you've wasted far too much of my time. I'm out.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Please tell me you're not done editing.

As an aside, This is old news. YAWN! This is one of the first things one does to their 911 AC system when upgrading to a decent evap.

And you can't hardly beat Griff's serpentine evap for quality. It's a very nice piece.

[brads911sc]

You brought this up 20 pages ago. Why bring it up again?

This is old news. YAWN! This is one of the first things one does to their 911 AC system when upgrading to a decent evap.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

The black plastic evaporator box in the hot smugglers box is not insulated at ALL DUH! Here are some pictures of one type of insulation material that can be attached to the outside of the plastic case Rennair promotes, its insulation and insulating the outside of the plastic evap box will keep cold inside and keep heat outside far better then no insulation does. I personally do not like this insulation material for several reasons and much better insulation can be found on Ebay THAT IS thin BLACK material bonded to thin aluminium which has already has an adhesive on it RenAires type does not and is far better then what I have shown in the pictures. Anway the Ebay thin back insulstion for example is used for automotive speaker sound proofing and also for interier automotove passanger compartment both sound deadining as well as temperature insulation and is availible in either bright aluinum or in dull black and these I consider excellent; however you can also use simple black cork tape (used to insilate outside of thermal expansion valves) or cut sheets and can be found also be found at Grainger for example

Originally Posted by KelogGes

btw this was aceived without me wraping insulation around the outside of my plastic evaporator box that I know doing this will lower air vents temps further

I now expect achieving even colder air vent temps in the 30s

[brads911sc]

This "plate" comes standard on the Griff Evap as part of the kit.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

this can be accomplished by a simple flat plate fabricated with a rectangular opening that is slightly smaller than the outsides of the evaporator the evaporator is set onto and is then sealed to the edges of the insides of the plastic box. This opening servers to more efficiently dump the moisture in the humid air out of the air into water and dropping it faster to the water/moisture condensate drain hole below the evaporator ; and furthermore even more importantly "greatly control the EVAP air movement ONLY THROUGH THE EVAP" and as little as possible going around the outer sides of the evap.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

You brought this up 20 pages ago. Why bring it up again?

This is old news. YAWN! This is one of the first things one does to their 911 AC system when upgrading to a decent evap.

I wonder sometimes if the few people constanently dissing me here can properly READ English

Originally Posted by KelogGes

I have a customer who wants a matched set of my PFC's call me yesterday that lives in the desert and has ambient temps often exceed 115 F plus in the summer and I want to help him make his 911 cold so I am posting some things we are talk about here for him I will call some tips and tricks that were found here on Pelican