factory short shift locking in 5th

doppel · 09-17-2011, 08:03 PM

OK, I have done several searches on this and have come up empty handed.

while replacing all the bushings in my (new to me '84 carrera) shift linkage, I decided to replace the aftermarket short shift kit with a factory short shift kit as well (ordered form host). Everything was pretty straightforward except something just isn't right. When I shift the the lever into 5th gear position I cant pull it out anymore. The lock pawl that prevents shifting into reverse, will not go back far enough to allow the tabs on the shift lever and lock pawl plate to clear one another (see photo below). Anyone have an idea of what might be wrong? First time I have done this but I am (pretty) confident everything went back together as it should.

Thanks,
Stumped!

PS. I also noted that the shift pivot housing (fork) and shift lever out of the kit had about 2mm play, which is curious as all the threads I have read mention having to relieve the interference fit. I pressed the housing together somewhat to create a light interference.

kerthunk · 09-17-2011, 08:24 PM

I had an issue with sticking in 5th as well. The problem was that the lever didn't go far enough forward to put the reverse gate into the correct position. I had to loosen up the shift coupler and give myself just a bit more forward angle. Now it works like a champ. Hopefully this helps!

doppel · 09-17-2011, 09:11 PM

No, I don't even have the housing mounted in the car yet. I just finished putting the assembly together and can't get it out of 5th gear position on the bench. Thanks for quick feedback though.
Scott

john walker's workshop · 09-17-2011, 09:17 PM

grind to clear? they may not make them like they used to. is the tab the same width on your original shifter?

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Pretty sure it's the coupler as mentioned.....bet if you put the old shifter back it will have the same problem as well.

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

+1 Coupler Reset.

javadog · 09-18-2011, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Pretty sure it's the coupler as mentioned.....bet if you put the old shifter back it will have the same problem as well.

No...

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

+1 Coupler Reset.

And, no...

He hasn't even installed it in the car yet, so there's no way the coupler can affect it.

doppel,

What parts did you change, where was the play exactly and how did you modify the housing?

JR

Kidasters · Kidasters's Garage

Something's not right if it is getting stuck. Did you use the correct springs? If I remember right, the short shift springs are shorter.

If you used the longer springs, there might be too much tension in the system.

schumicat · 09-18-2011, 05:14 AM

is the fork right side up? IIRC the curved part is top.

doppel · 09-18-2011, 05:31 AM

confirm -shifter housing is not installed in the car, just assembled all parts and is still on the workbench.

I replaced all the parts that come in the factory short shift kit from pelican (911 424 931 00) which is essentially everything in the housing (except the pin locking clips, locking pin for adjusting for and aft play of the shift pivot housing / fork and a few nuts and washers)

The only part I modified was the shift pivot housing (also called fork or cage). There was about 2mm of play between it and the shift lever, so I squeezed it a bit to create a slight interference, just bowed the walls inward a bit.

The tab on the shift lever is quite a bit wider than the tab on the previously installed short shifter and the locking pawl geometry looks a little different??. I don't feel comfortable grinding the tab or modifying the factory shift kit, as my expectation would be that all these "factory" parts should work together.

ivangene · 09-18-2011, 06:56 AM

did you replace the pivot pin?

reason I ask is I have 4 of these sitting on my bench and was showing someone when we realized one pin was slightly longer from the groove to the end - all I could think of is that MAYBE the FSSK uses a slightly different length due to the change in height to the spring cage thing????

just a thought?

kerthunk · 09-18-2011, 07:00 AM

Sorry, I thought it was in the car already...

How hard was it to push it into 5th? Did you have to push hard against the springs? Is the reverse lockout physically blocking it from returning (the lever can move freely back and forth but stops at the lockout)?

If it is friction that is sticking it in 5th (unable to move the lever at all), then I would look at loosening up the allen screw that holds the shift pivot housing. It could also be the springs pushing the lever against the top plate tab, in that case, you would simply need to force it back.

You need to take a good look at it and try to figure out where it is blocked/sticking. It is a pretty simple mechanism. We just need a bit more info to help you out.

911pcars · 09:23 AM

Did you install all the components contained in the factory SS kit? They look like this:

Compare and confirm. If you don't use the correct components, the shifter may not work correctly.

BTW, the reverse lock pawl merely rotates on the rivet and reacts to block movement into reverse when the lever moves directly from fifth but not from neutral. Something else is preventing the lever from moving. I suspect something is amiss with the relative position between the return spring plate (5 o'clock) and the pivot pin.

Sherwood

doppel · 09-18-2011, 10:29 AM

Sherwood, I replaced all of those parts, mine look "more or less" like those in your image, thanks.

I am experiencing a mechanical lock out of parts (no friction issues). In the 2 pictures below, the shift lever is as far back as it will go trying to exit the 5th gear position. In one of the photos you can see that the pawl is rotated back far back as it will go and in the other foto that the tabs won't clear one another by about 2mm, ergo locked! In addition to this it looks as if the tab on the shift lever is quite a bit higher than it should be ? opinions? I am now wondering if I got a "monday" kit and the tab was welded on wrong or simply too wide. Johnny walker's suggestion below of grinding the tab would allow the lever to exit the locked position, but I am wary of doing this as am not sure if the other geometry is correct. How much clearance (max) should ther be between the tabs when pulled all the way back?

Other suggestions:
- springs and pin are out of the kit, I assume they are correct, but don't know for sure.
- hump on the fork/cage is facing up

Thanks for all the quick help.

scott

911pcars · 09-18-2011, 10:43 AM

Since the housing is off the car, look at how the pivot pin interfaces with the spring plate. Can you snap a photo and post?

While factory and factory short shift components are more or less similar, the parts in discussion are not exactly the same wherein lies a potential source for your issues. Compare the spring plate with the one you removed. It's different - should be.

I wager if you remove the pivot pin, all will be well. Then it's a matter of discovering why there's unintended interference.

The relative height of the lever arm-to-carrier plate tab looks normal.

Sherwood

kerthunk · 09-18-2011, 10:58 AM

In looking at those pics, it looks like the tab on the lever is much too wide. Is your pivot pin housing as far forward as it can go? In the first pic, it looks like there is some room between it and the shifter housing. If it can move forward more, then that will change the angle of the lever and may be enough to clear.

Otherwise, I'm going to agree with John Walker that the tab on the lever needs to be ground down a bit.

Todd Simpson · 09-18-2011, 11:11 AM

Could the pivot "cage" be installed upside down? The steel box the lever goes through that keeps it centered in the aluminum housing?

I made that mistake a few months ago...I don't know if I had this issue but I discovered it when the ball on the bottom of the shifter was nowhere near the rod in the tunnel.

doppel · 09-18-2011, 11:14 AM

I can't figure out how the pin and the spring guide plate would affect this issue, I think it is just between the pawl lock plate and the shift lever. I attempted a picture of the interaction of spring guide plate and pin.

The pivot pin housing is as far forward as it will go (except for the washer) and is adjusted for tension, the photo is a bit misleading.

doppel · 09-18-2011, 11:20 AM

Sherwood, spring plate is different than the original, looks like foto you posted.

schumicat · 09-18-2011, 11:54 AM

I just went and look at my car. I think the problem is your pawl seems to not be rotating all the way. As you pull the shifter down from 5th gear, the pawl should rotate counterclockwise to allow your shifter to clear the tab at the top. Yours (first photo a few post above this) seems to stop rotating with the shifter not even in the middle of its up/down range of movement.