2.2 to 2.4 upgrade question

[56 nomad]

hello,
posted about water in a cylinder of my 2.2 t and some have suggested using 2.4 cylinders for a little more power.
what would be involved in the change, will the heads and case need machining or is this a simple upgrade?
if i do go this route which manufacturers have some had good results with, could i buy a good used set and re-bore etc.?
i am the second owner of this 71, but it is by no means a show car, just an occasional driver..... so cost to upgrade is a consideration.
any advice is appreciated. thanks , Ben

[Jeff Higgins]

They are both 84mm. The "upgrade" is to put the higher compression 2.2 S pistons and cylinders on a 2.4 (which had less compression than the 2.2), so you kind of have it backwards. That said, putting "S" pistons in your "T" motor is a worthy upgrade. They will fit your cylinders, assuming they are still good. Another option would be JE pistons. Although they do not list 84's, I hear they will custom make them in that size. All of this is dead simple bolt-on, no machining required.

[al lkosmal]

This upgrade, outlined in Waynes book, sounds like a great way to go..... although this may be a bit more ambitious than you are looking for. upgrade your 2.2T to a higher comp (10:1) 2.4E.

84mm cylinders (use your existing, if in spec)
2.2 Heads (use your exisitng)
2.2 E pistons
2.4/2.7 crank
E-cams (great street cam, IMO)

Carbs, SSI's and a sport muffler and you will be stylin. Great winter project!

I built a 9.5:1 comp, 2.7 version of this engine and it was one of my favorites

regards,
Al

[56 nomad]

Thanks for responding so quickly
i think the assumption was the added cc's would help a hp a little, but it sounds like moving to e cam and s pistons would be better.
is there a big difference in the e cam over the t...where is the gain to be made, low end or upper range?
if i kept my 2.2 heads and cylinders would the e cam make more of a difference than using 2.4 pistons and cylinders?
you are right about then of the crank as i am looking at doing the top end right now...not looking forward to setting the cams and the timing chain....so you are right its more ambitious than i am ready for. i have experience wrenching on v8's but not flat sixes. i will have to tackle this on my own as i don't know anyone here to help me.
thanks again for the responses, Ben

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by 56 nomad

Thanks for responding so quickly
i think the assumption was the added cc's would help a hp a little, but it sounds like moving to e cam and s pistons would be better.
is there a big difference in the e cam over the t...where is the gain to be made, low end or upper range?
if i kept my 2.2 heads and cylinders would the e cam make more of a difference than using 2.4 pistons and cylinders?
you are right about then of the crank as i am looking at doing the top end right now...not looking forward to setting the cams and the timing chain....so you are right its more ambitious than i am ready for. i have experience wrenching on v8's but not flat sixes. i will have to tackle this on my own as i don't know anyone here to help me.
thanks again for the responses, Ben

You won't get any added cc's. The 2.4 was made out of a 2.2 by having a longer stroke crankshaft. The cylinders are the same diameter.

[Joeaksa]

One other thing that is not mentioned is that with the 2.4 engine you will have more torque and this makes the engine a bit easier to drive, especially in the city.

Another question guys. Any chance that Ben could use 2.7 cylinders on his stock crankcase?

[Flieger]

You have to bore the spigots for the 2.7 cylinders but other than that they fit just fine. The Nikasil cylinders themselves offer a power increase due to less friction.

[Jeff Higgins]

You would actually lose performance, by virtue of a decrease in compression ration, by switching a 2.2 to 2.4 pistons. The wrist pins are higher in 2.4 pistons, effectively lowering them in the bore, lowering compression when used on the 66mm crank in the 2.2. That's how they kept compression down when going to the 2.4's 70.4mm stroke.

A top end only rebuild, best bang for the buck approach, would be to raise compression via "E", "S", or JE pistons and to go to "E" cams, just like Al mentions above. Re-use your barrels if you can and save some real money.

[DaveE]

You could build a 2.5


Cost might be an issue...

[Joeaksa]

Flieger,

Do not believe that Ben wants to go to this much work and expense. He is I believe more in the "plug and play" mode right now and the least expensive the better.

He had some water get into one cylinder and foul the bore, so he is just trying to get the engine running again, not a full bore overhaul.

[56 nomad]

Thanks to all for the responses,
i have all my questions answered will stay with the 2.2. Nice to be schooled by those more knowledgeable and always willing to learn. i did not know about the stroke being the main difference other than injection/cam (should read more....thought it was bore size) one other questoin and lets close the thread , are the e cams worth the effort to change out, where will the difference be felt?
Regards to all and still too many projects, Ben

[tharbert]

This was posted by Bobboloo:

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Flieger,

Do not believe that Ben wants to go to this much work and expense. He is I believe more in the "plug and play" mode right now and the least expensive the better.

He had some water get into one cylinder and foul the bore, so he is just trying to get the engine running again, not a full bore overhaul.

I was just answering the question about whether 90mm cylinders would fit.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by 56 nomad

...are the e cams worth the effort to change out, where will the difference be felt?
Regards to all and still too many projects, Ben

Definitely worth the trouble and expense, which will both be minimal on top of what you are already doing by way of the top end job. You can get E cams from a number of sources, either original used ones of newly welded and reground ones. Just make sure you get the older three bearing cams. While all original E cams will be three bearing, most new cams are the later four bearing, even if they have the earlier grinds. I don't think three bearing blanks are available to the cam grinders anymore.

The E grind gives a good deal more mid and upper mid range punch than the T grind, or the S grind, for that matter. It really is probably the best small displacement (2.0 to 2.7) street grind. S cams are a lot of fun in the small motors, but you kind of have to spin them up a bit more than most folks want to in a street motor to take full advantage of them. Your 2.2 T motor has the cast, non-counterbalanced crank (the E and S motors have the forged, counterbalanced crank), so that is reason enough not to spin it up into S cam territory. The E cam makes great power up to 6,000 to 6,500 rpm, which is about as high as you want to go with that motor.

So, E cams, a bump in compression, and your 2.2 motor will wake up significantly. Pretty cheap route to go, too, if you have to replace pistons anyway. I would check Web Cam for fresh hard welded and reground three bearing E cams, or check this site's want ads for used.