No time no start

[Wew]

I have posted before. Been methodically working away trying to get my 911 sc targa 1978 project started.
The car cranks but wont turn over.
Below is what I have done and
New plugs and msd 6al-2 with tach adaptor installed.
Get strong spark at coil and spark plug 1.
Gas tank drained and new tank filter installed.
New fuel filter and accumulator installed.
New battery
New cap and rotor
Plug wire order double checked
All new fuses and fuel pump relay installed.
Fuel pump tested and pushed fuel out through the fuel filter.
Sensor plate moves freely
Auxilary valve is open
Now here's where I am confused.
Father in law and I tried timing the car and it will not go in time no matter how far we spin the distributor.
He thinks the timing chain or something along those lines is the culprit.
The engine has 186000 miles on it.
Please advise foe next best steps?
Could it be bad tensioner s?
Wondering what else I can do before I just drop the motor and do a complete top to bottom rebuild.
Your advice and experience is much appreciated.
The fact that it won't go into time is really got me confused.

[pete3799]

Distributor turns counter clockwise.
I'd bet you have the wires on wrong.

[Wew]

Wires are correct. Bentley manual firing rider and counter clockwise on the cap. All a check. Thanks for replying. Appreciate all feedback.

[Flat6pac]

Do you have fuel coming down the injector when you lift the airflow sensor?
Do you have spark when you turn over the engine, the easiest check is an old plug and pull #4 wire and lay it on the A/C console to ground, turn the engine over see spark.
Bruce

[pete3799]

Distributor in 180 degrees out?

[timmy2]

Originally Posted by pete3799

Distributor in 180 degrees out?

+1. Make sure your rotor is pointing to the small indentation on the distributor when cylinder 1 is at TDC.

[James Brown]

distributor is gear driven, no chain involved, take the cap off and hit the starter to determine direction of rotation, if good, check for 12V at the MSD box with the ignition on, green wire correct to the MSD box? just read you getting spark from the MSD box, how are you setting timing?

[mpetry]

A great way to get the timing in the ballpark is to use a 12v light bulb connected between the cold side of the coil and a convenient ground on the case. Then turn the key on and slowly rotate the crank - the light goes on when the points open, there's your timing.

I do not know if you can do this with CDI or MSD ignition boxes however.

Somebody else said it above, set #1 on TDC, confirm the distributor rotor points to #1, verify the plug wire is routed correctly.

[Wew]

O.k. The green wire James mentions is not on my ignition. When I bought the car the icu was missing from the vehicle. So it make sense that the person also took the green wire pigtail from the distributor. This might explain the wire housing I found near the distributor that was tucked under some ignition wires. Do I just plug the installed wire from my distributor Into this connection, or because I have an msd 6al 2 some more wiring need to be done?
Thanks again for all feed back.
Obviously I am still going to have to work on the timing.
Thanks,
Gary

[James Brown]

what a mess, the MSD wire goes to the dissy (trigger), you can find a wiring schematic on the MSD website, that should tell you what color wire it is. there is a plug you can get to go from the MSD to the dissy but they are expensive. the green wire is a small coax, use the inner wire for the trigger wire just insulate it good.

[Wew]

Yea, it is a mess. I am at a loss of what to do. I bought the pigtail wire harness from pelican. I already changed the cap and rotor. I will recheck my distributor wire order, but I already trip checked it and I am getting spark. It seems to me the only way to get this thing back in time is crank it tdc and confirm it's the #1 cylinder, not #4 and then remove the distributor and spin it so the rotor lines up with the line and then reinstall with it lining up to ignition wire #1.
As far as the pigtail wire/ harness I will plug into that outlet, but I don't even know where that outlet goes. Hopefully it sends a signal somewhere that says, "hey, turn over"
I called msd and they said currently I have it wired correctly if I am getting spark, and he also went back to the timing.

I am also going to track the fuel from the filter to the fuel distributor and to the injectors to see if I am getting fuel as well.
I am getting white smoke from the car when I crank it, so father in laws, where theres smoke theres fire, which he says means there is fuel getting in there otherwise I wouldn't see the smoke.

Again any additional advice is appreciated. I am starting to throw money at this thing in hopes of getting it going.
That's the tough part, I really want to get this thing to start so I can really go through and test it before I decide to take my next steps. Without getting the engine to run I am flying blind so to speak.

Thanks again for the input and thank you James for you insight as well.

Gary

[kodioneill]

Not to be a jerk but it's very dangerous working around cars with a ring on, I know guy's that lost fingers. FWIW.

[schumicat]

I would use an ohmmeter to check continuity between the 2 pins on that plug you found and the 2 pins on the harness which plugs into the MSD harness (MSD diagram can tell you which are supposed to be dist. signal and dist. ground). if that checks out then that 2 pin plug is what you connect to harness coming from the dizzy. what I don't understand is how your car could be firing at all to make smoke with no signal from the dizzy to fire the coil....

[pete3799]

That plug looks like it might go to the WUR. Doesn't look like the wire is long enough in the picture to reach it though.
The green wire on my 79 goes directly to the distributor (no plug).

[Wew]

Kodioneill, point taken. Not being a jerk, just looking out for your fellow wrencher. I actually do not wear the ring when working, I ran out to the garage to snap the picture.
There are two little wires coming off the bottom of the distributor that are spliced to other wires with electrical tape. I am going to check out and take pictures afterwards and post.
I am not convinced that this car cannot be started. The answer is out there.
I will post a picture of those wires and where they are going this evening. Maybe that will help solve the mystery. until then, thank fellow Pelicans.

Gary

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Wew

O.k. The green wire James mentions is not on my ignition. When I bought the car the icu was missing from the vehicle. So it make sense that the person also took the green wire pigtail from the distributor. This might explain the wire housing I found near the distributor that was tucked under some ignition wires. Do I just plug the installed wire from my distributor Into this connection, or because I have an msd 6al 2 some more wiring need to be done?
Thanks again for all feed back.
Obviously I am still going to have to work on the timing.
Thanks,
Gary

Gary,

That rectangular wire plug looks like the one for the WUR? If I were in your shoes, I would do the following and not necessarily in this order:
1. Check and confirm that @ TDC (Z1), the distributor rotor is pointing to the marker (cyl.#1) on the distributor body.
2. Presence of good and strong ignition sparks during cranking.
3. All spark plugs wires are correctly installed.
4. ChecK fuel pressures and the injectors are spraying uniform mist spray patterns and not one is leaking.
5. Make sure you don't have a significant vacuum leak in the engine.
6. A fully charged battery.


Could you post picture of your WUR? In case you don't have a pressure gauge available, stop what you are doing because you are wasting your valuable time. Keep us posted.

Tony

[James Brown]

here is a pic of the green wire bosch plug to a 6AL MSD, you might not have on on your SC but you can see what it should look like. somewhere, someone had to make a connection to the CDI unit

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by mpetry

A great way to get the timing in the ballpark is to use a 12v light bulb connected between the cold side of the coil and a convenient ground on the case. Then turn the key on and slowly rotate the crank - the light goes on when the points open, there's your timing.

I do not know if you can do this with CDI or MSD ignition boxes however.

Somebody else said it above, set #1 on TDC, confirm the distributor rotor points to #1, verify the plug wire is routed correctly.

Mark,

The '78 SC distributor (ignition) does not have 'point' but rather a rotor like yours.

Tony

[Wew]

First, thanks for all of your support and input. I am a rookie that is not afraid, although I am starting to feel a little like pacqioa in the ring with Marquez. I put a tester on that lead and ingest the ohm meter beep. What's that mean.. I have no idea. But it makes the same noise when I touch the leads to the coil. I am going to post some images to follow. The last image of that beautiful distributor looks like it has two sets of wires coming out of it. Anyway... Pictures on the way. And again, thanks for all of the input and feedback. It's all good and all appreciated.
Gary

[Wew]