(Ignition) Help troubleshooting

[EA911]

I've been having an intermittent starting problem for sometime now and I need some help troubleshooting the problem.

Here's whats happening (Note: the car does not have a steering lock)
I place the key in the ignition and turn to start but all it does is a click sound. I can hear the CDI box and fuel pump working. I go ahead and turn the key again and this time the starter goes and the car starts.

Some other times I would turn the key and hold it in the start position, I can hear the fuel pump and the CDI working but there would be a 2sec delay before the starter cranks.

Car has fresh battery so I know thats not the issue. I'm thinking its the ignition switch but it turns and there is contact for fuel pump, CDI, etc...

Does the 69T have an ignition rely? I do hear a click sound and its coming from somewhere near the ignition switch. Could that be the relay?

Thanks in advance!

[DRACO A5OG]

I know you stated it was a new battery, but get your DVM out and get a readings before you start and reading while idle and at 2500 RPMs then at shut down. This will eliminate charging system as a culprit

If your switch is like the 3.2 you can remove electrical side out and use a Phlillips to turn her over to see if the switch is the culprit, well if it binds or sticks.

Jim

[James Brown]

sounds like gunk in the starter solenoid may need a new one

[EA911]

My switch is not like the 3.2 so I'm not sure if I can open it up. I'll take a look later tonight.

Where is the starter solenoid located?

[larrym]

go get a $3 remote start switch at your local auto store or HF

jumper that switch across + battery and to the yellow wire tab on the solenoid

trigger the remote switch

if it cranks, your problem is upstream and maybe your ignition sw

if it does not crank you have a bad starter solenoid - pull the starter & replace it all

or - possibly a badly worn oem switch module

- the contacts inside it are simply ancient and they depend on a certain amount of "pressure" to make a good contact - long gone on our old cars-

the electrical switching module part of it is replaceable - i bought a new-in-box module long time ago just in case it ever happens on my 1970

[t930928]

Recently had the same problem with a 74. When testing each component of the starting system individually everything checked out. When put together would occasionally crank. More times not. Finally checked voltage on the wire running from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. Disconnected wire and hooked it to a multi meter then turned the key. Found only 10.5 volts going to the solenoid. Checked and cleaned all connections with no voltage increase. Figure the wire increased resistance due to age and occasional over-cranking. Plus it is somewhat undersized for what it needs to do anyway. Installed a hot start kit provided from our host. Now it cranks and starts every time. Additionally on the 74's the cold start system is powered by that same wire branching off at the starter. Now my car fires right up in cold weather which it would not do before.

[Targalid]

Weak or bad ground? Check and clean the connections for the ground strap from the tranny to the body and also the negative cable where it connects to the body at the battery.

[EA911]

I need to run an ignition switch test. Does anyone know how to bypass the switch to crank the starter?

Here is a picture of the wiring. I know its hard to see but perhaps someone who has experience can chime in.

Thanks in advance!!

[EA911]

Here's the pic.

[kidrock]

the switch would be the last thing I would look at. This problem is very common with our cars, and is usually related to bad grounds (as stated by Targalid) or an old, faulty solenoid (as James Brown pointed out). These are usually the culprits. Once those issues have been eliminated, then the switch should be tested.

The first thing I would do is when the "click"/no start issue appears again, put the car in neutral and have somebody turn the key while you gently tap on the solenoid. If it starts, then you can eliminate the switch being the issue.

[EA911]

Thanks Kidrock. Ok I have a really stupid question, where is the solenoid on a 69 911T?

[304065]

The solenoid is mounted on the side of the starter. It's the small cylinder.




The way it works is clever. When the yellow wire is energized, it in turn energizes the solenoid, which acts like an electromagnet to pull the starter pinion into contact with the ring gear at the same time that it makes the connection between the battery cable and the motor.

Changing it would be ideal if you could drop the engine, but it can be done with the engine in the car. It's a greasy, messy job. Be sure to disconnect the batteries (both of them!) or you will electrocute yourself. Remove cable with 13mm wrench, don't lose nut and lock washer. Pull off yellow wire from solenoid. Remove M10 nuts (I think 15mm across the flats) and the starter should come free.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_starter_install/911_starter_install.htm

[EA911]

Thanks 304065.

I'll give it a light tap as suggested by kidrock and see what happens otherwise its going to be a messy job for me.

Any suggestions on a replacement starter? or can I just change out the solenoid portion.

[304065]

You could pull the starter apart and inspect it, but why? Bosch rebuilds are dirt cheap.

Our host carries the SR17X (the X is for "exchange" a rebuild) for $112. Hard to get one locally for that.

Pelican Parts - Product Information: SR-17X-M14

[EA911]

Just an update:

The car is now starting fine. I was going to test the starter but now I'll need to wait till the problem acts up again. Might just be proactive and swap out the starter with a freshly rebuilt SR-17X one.

[schumicat]

that type of intermittent issue is a common failure mode for starters. has happened to me on 2-3 other cars.

[304065]

Originally Posted by EA911

Just an update:

The car is now starting fine. I was going to test the starter but now I'll need to wait till the problem acts up again. Might just be proactive and swap out the starter with a freshly rebuilt SR-17X one.

Proactive is a good idea. The car is trying to help you out by breaking down in your garage rather than at the side of the road. In return for this consideration from the car, a rebuilt starter and a few busted knuckles.

[EA911]

Thanks for all your help guys!!!