Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7506323)

Maybe I, we, have missed something, what if the "non-barrier" hose design is such that really does serve as a HIGH PRESSURE relief "valve"...?

What if the refrigerant only "permeates" completely through the inner liner as pressures grow higher and higher. Now, rather than have those pressures "build up" over time between the hose layers the outer layer "bleeds". The outer layer must be strong enough to prevent bulging/ballooning so absent the bleed off pin holes the result might well be EXPLOSIVE.

So, what might be the permeation rate, through and through, of the inner liner north of, say, 350 PSI..?

Originally Posted by brads911sc (Post 7506291)

Prove your theory. Post a video!!

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7506336)

What is left to prove with a video at this point..? Kuehl (GTI) is in complete agreement with me that only extreme pressures result in our "non-barrier" hose leaking.

the chief naysayer is now left with no clothes...

Originally Posted by brads911sc (Post 7506330)

Interesting.

Sounds like you have some testing to do.

Not at all...Unless you're now willing to despute the GTI(Kuehl..?) statements

After you post your video showing pressures increase immediately after shut down...

If, at this point, you do not see the light at the end of this tunnel then YOU need to purchase some night vision goggles.

The air-cooled engine Porsche of the 90's period have a temperature sensing probe in the air intake duct for the engine compartment cabin heating fan. If, during engine operation, the sensor detects a temperature north of 75C that fan is powered for HIGH speed. to provide additional engine cooling. Additionally there is a 20 minute time delay that is enabled upon engine shutdown should the probe indicate a temperature above 30C. Subsequently, if the probe temperature rises above 70C during that 20 minute period the fan will be enabled for "after-run" engine cooling.

If you are of the belief that our Porsche's do not suffer from the same problem, after-run HEAT rise, then no one, nothing will be of help convincing you otherwise.

Regardless, I still plan to do the video, but at my own time and convience.

and your video showing a meaningful drop in pressures at variaus RPMs with and without SPAL fans, you can test your 350 psi hose theory and post a video there. Will be interesting information... Good luck with your testing.

The Pelican tech note by Bob Tindel wasn't convincing enough for you?

Now kindly drop off all AC threads until you have concluded your testing and have your videos.

Originally Posted by brads911sc (Post 7506377)

So basically no proof to your theories (videos) are coming. You have holes all through your theories. Logic has departed your brain. His site doesnt answer the fundamental questions. Sounds like you already backed out because EVERY poster in the last 3 threads was a naysayer. You lose. Game over.

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7506410)

As I said, I'll still do the video but with less urgency since GTI (Kuehl?) and I are now in pretty much full agreement.

Originally Posted by brads911sc (Post 7506435)

You should have said that 2 years ago. lol
Im sure he can hook you up with a great Kuehl kit that will make you cold LOL

Still doesnt really answer any of the questions... like why some of us had refrigerant leak with old hose and no leaks with new hose... but you dont have a brain so its futile.

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7506449)

NEW hoses do not have the EXTREME PRESSURE relief design as did the old hoses. So absent the use of some other pressure limiting measures when converting to the new hoses you are simply moving toward finding the next next weakest link...the compressor shaft seal...?

Unless, as the EPA and GTI suggests, you use the binary pressure sensor to LIMIT high side pressures.

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 7506612)

Switches and fans have value. System safety if way high pressure and cooling for reducing pressures. End all and be all - nah. Make sense, hell yes.

All this arguing and name calling, marketing genius vs good AC tech, cow patty, no beef, ass hat, etc...............

This seems to capture the rub stated by Silber:

"It is claimed that somehow the high side stays isolated from the low side after this shut-down period, and that high side pressures continue to rise due to PV=nRT. This is the unproven and unfounded claim that wwest continues to make"

I say if theory is not verified, wwest mans up and offers an apology. If proven, naysayers apologize and pool funds to buy wwest a set of carbon fiber/billet trinary switches (four sets of course) and SPAL fans custom crafted by hand by Kuehl.

Now who was supposed to perform the test?

Edit: No apology for the theory needed but one, perhaps, for being so stinkin' belligerent. You could just own it and that alone will set you freeeeeeeeeeee!!

Originally Posted by wwest (Post 7506730)

How could that not mean that the high side pressure rose AFTER the compressor stopped running.

And that was with the OAT at 57F and overcast skies.

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 7506754)

It may have to do with that fancy gas expansion formula Silber stated. I surely don't know.

It may not be linear. Temp rises post shut-off - does "trapped" gas pressure have to react in the same lock step manner? Maybe not? If it does then it would make the transition from high to low side a little quicker. (e.g., while chowing down on ribs)
'

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 7506754)

It may have to do with that fancy gas expansion formula Silber stated. I surely don't know.

It may not be linear. Temp rises post shut-off - does "trapped" gas pressure have to react in the same lock step manner? Maybe not? If it does then it would make the transition from high to low side a little quicker. (e.g., while chowing down on ribs)
'

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 7506775)

Then, as the condenser is heated, the pressure equalization *rate* will slow, due to increasing tmeperature of the components.

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 7506775)

If I did some differential multivariate calculus on the system

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6 (Post 7506775)

The answer is if the TEV actually isolates the system by being all the way closed. The professionals say "NAY!", while wwest claims otherwise, with no proof. If the two sides of the compressor are not completely isolated by a gas-tight seal, then high-side pressure will bleed to the low side.

I have already done the calculation as to pressure rise due to a temperature increase of 30 degrees F.

Then tell us all, please, pretty PLEASE. But if the rate of rise is non-linear we may need the caculation for a rise from 120F to 155F....

This assumes that valve to be all the way closed.

If the valve is not closed, then pressure will immediately start going down before the temp of the rear condenser rises. Then, as the condenser is heated, the pressure equalization *rate* will slow, due to increasing tmeperature of the components. The effect of an open valve, no matter how small the opening, is an effective increase in system volume. Since pressure and volume are on one side of the equation, and temperature on the other, you'd need a LOT of temperature increase to increase the pressure if the volume is increasing at the same time.

If the volume is increasing at the "same" rate cognizant with the rise in temperature/pressure. That's assuming the TXV isn't "closed".

If I did some differential multivariate calculus on the system, I might be able to roughly determine the potential pressure rise, or at least describe the equation for its rate of change. But just by inspection, I can see that there are no temperatures outside of the exhaust manifold that can raise the temperature enough to cause a high side rise like the one wwest would have us believe is happening.

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak (Post 7506829)

This I don't understand from a layman's viewpoint. If molecules are agitated by heat, and there is an orifice open to the other side why not haul ass faster over there?