No warranty for track use trans rebuild - should I be worried?

[Maxhouse97]

I am looking to rebuild the G50 transmission on my 87 Carrera. I recently dropped it off at a local Cincinnati independent shop (actually he works out of his house). As I was signing the paperwork, the mechanic asked if I race the car (I'm sure my roll bar gave it away). I mentioned that while I do not "race" it wheel to wheel, I have taken it out on the track for DEs and would like to do so in the future - probably 2-3 times a year max. He then said that he would not offer his normal 6 month warranty on the trans rebuild as a result of my track use. He said the build would be the same either way. I said that while I did not plan to track it heavily in the near future (due to my new 8 month old daughter) that I certainly didn't want to be precluded from doing so.

As I thought it about it more after I left, some red flags raised in my head. Should I be worried? What is the normal protocol with respect to warranties on these transmissions? I really don't care about the warranty or money per say, but the fact that he would not be confident in warranting his work if I took it on the track. I would rather him say "well if you are going to track it, here are the components I would recommend we use" etc. What do you think?

Should I spend the extra money to ship it to a professional race shop? Anyone know what it costs to ship a transmission? Again I do not plan on racing it significantly, but I WANT THE PIECE OF MIND knowing that it was built robustly so that it could handle track use. Thanks.

[Dantilla]

Lotsa trannys are blown on the track due to a missed shift- Completely driver error.

I can see why a mechanic doesn't want to take a chance on a customer expecting him to replace a tranny when the failure was not his fault in any way.

Have him do his thing, and stay off the track for six months so you still have his warrenty. Or at least stay off the track until you have enough miles on it to know it is performing flawlessly.

[wildthing]

Easy. Don't track it for six months.

[Maxhouse97]

I can certainly not track it for 6 months - probably wouldn't even get on the track in that time for other reasons- but my concern is why he saying he will not warranty it for track use. Of course I could always blow a shift - but that's the case for even the best rebuild. I would hope that could be proven based upon the damage in the trans?

What is the difference in rebuild quality between a standard independent and a race shop? Is there a significant variation in the strength and durability of components used? I just can't imagine a race shop telling a customer that they will not warranty their transmission - and I am sure they have to worry about the same over rev condition. Or am I worrying too much about this?

[wildthing]

I suppose it is the same reason why regular car insurance doesn't cover racing events... More importantly how reliable are his builds? Have you spoken to references and other customers?

[Trackrash]

I'm not sure anyone will warranty a transmission for track use. I would rely on the reputation of the mechanic. As others have said drive it a while on the street. Any problems with the rebuild will probably show up right away.

That aside, what sort of "re-build" is he doing? Is he replacing ALL the bearings, synchros, and sliders? Or just a couple of synchro rings and gaskets?

What was the reason for needing the rebuild?

[DohertyCM]

How would I prove that you broke it at the track?

Find another shop.

[javadog]

I would not use a guy that works out of his house. Nobody that I know, that is any good, does not have a separate shop. Engine rebuilds and transmission rebuild are two things I would send to the "best" guy, regsardless of where that is. Shipping a tranny is nothing compared to the cost of properly rebuilding one.

JR

[Ronnie's.930]

I've never heard of a racing part, or a racing/track use build, that had a warranty - even OEMs, such a Ducati, tell you that if you use their machinery on a track, or buy Ducati Racing parts, there is no warranty. What he told you is the norm in my experience.

[john walker's workshop]

i just tell them no warranty on abuse.

[Maxhouse97]

Reason for the rebuild is a bad 2nd gear synchro. Desired rebuild is whatever it takes to make it like new again. Don't need a Paris-Dakar rally trans -just something that will last.

[Dan J]

If you buy a new cup car from Porsche there is no warranty
That being said I'd discuss this with your mechanic and tell him your concern.
I'm sure he stands behind his work however if you break it whilst on track it's on your nickel
A G50 is pretty hard to break behind a 3.2

[Maxhouse97]

Sounds like no warranty is not unheard of. What's the variation in rebuild quality on G50s? I know they are harder than 915s, but are they that complicated? The mechanic claimed he had rebuilt several before, something I believed when he offered me a rebuilt one for sale. If he uses OEM parts and follows the shop manual, is it that hard to do?

[HawgRyder]

When I bought my 1967 Ford Fairlane...427 ... dual quads....the intake manifold was in the trunk.
Warranty was for the chassis and some brake and steering parts.
Engine, trans, and rear end...my problem...LOL

Bob

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Maxhouse97

If he uses OEM parts and follows the shop manual, is it that hard to do?

I'd wager there are more guys out there that can't do a good job than those who can. It takes some special tools, more than a fair bit of judgement and experience and an owner that's willing to spend whatever it takes to do it right. There are lots of shortcuts and I've driven more bad rebuilds than good ones.

If you want an idea of what's involved in a trans rebuild, read Peter Zimmerman's series of web articles about the process. It's not G50-specific but it will give you a general idea of the magnitude of the process.

JR

[Dan J]

I think a 950 is easier then a 915 if you have the tools but a trans is a trans
vw bug or 13 spd road ranger you have to be careful and smart

[175K911]

At least it sounds like he was truthful enough to tell you there was no warranty up front before the work began.

[thumbdoctor]

I'd have to agree with John. Abuse can be construed with racing or a driver clumsily throwing the gear selector. Having rebuilt a many transaxles and then seeing the end user's methods makes me mention the "abuse" clause. BTW, I perform "Home repairs", my shop is 1000 square feet detached from my home, I have purchased or built most of my special tools. None of my customers consider my work sub par just because my shop address is the same as my home address. Some of the best work is done by persons with passion for the trade not the all mighty dollar.

[timmy2]

Most small businesses start at home in the garage.
The initial overhead of running a shop is huge.
Part time cottage industries are everywhere.
Quality and reputation are dependent on the end product, not where the work is done.

[Maxhouse97]

I agree - the home shop thing did not dissuade me from using him. And I agree with the sentiment that at least he notified me up front. He also mentioned liability when we discussed dropping off the car. I wanted to see if I could just drop it off myself without him there and drop the key somewhere, but he insisted that he be there to receive the keys "for liability reasons." I had no problem with that.

Maybe he has had some bad experiences in the past with customers trying to sue him? No idea.

After all that has been said, my plan is to go back and have an in depth discussion with him about his past experience, what special tools he will use for this rebuild (can anyone give me a few names), what type of parts he plans on using, etc. to build my overall confidence level and then make a decision. He did have 2 other 911s in his driveway, a mint 914 and a Ferrari 308 in his garage. Funny - it's kind of like picking a new babysitter for my daughter