Another 3.2 Engine rebuild - lots of questions!

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by r-mm

Gary are you not buying a gasket kit? I got mine as part of the kit...

Yes I did Russ, they come in the Wrightwood kit? Last one I bought was for an SC and of course they weren't in there as SC's don't come with Carrera tensioners.. good to know, thank you!

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Flat6pac

Nothing says you need the heat boxes out of the way at this point of disassembly.
I have pulled the heads from the engine, removed the rockers, cams, and cam carriers which then makes the nuts more easily worked on to remove the heads. But I have had the inserts in the Carrera heads hold on after nuts are removed, then you need an air chisel.
Bruce

I realize that, but I wanted all the scrap off there for my Saturday dump run...

Actually it was 20 minutes and about 5 Sawzall blades and done, now I don't have that rusty, greasy mess to deal with! And the bolt heads/nuts that held the muffler, crossover, etc. were rotted to nonexistence, it was going to be plasma cutter or sawzall for all that garbage either way.

[GaryR]

Oh, and for anyone out there that thinks 3.2's are not every bit as liable to snap exhaust side head studs as an SC, these all fell out without me touching them... 5 came from one side! It's an 87 motor.

[r-mm]

Wow makes me happy I sprung for all steel exhaust studs even though mine looked healthy!

Yes the WW kit comes with a full compliment of crush washers, more than you could ever hope for. I ended up with some extras. In case you're using the collapsible oil return tubes don't make the mistake I did - the inner o rings are not included. And if you're using the fancy billet ones, its almost impossible to find those o rings on the PP site although they do most certainly sell them.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by r-mm

Wow makes me happy I sprung for all steel exhaust studs even though mine looked healthy!

Yes the WW kit comes with a full compliment of crush washers, more than you could ever hope for. I ended up with some extras. In case you're using the collapsible oil return tubes don't make the mistake I did - the inner o rings are not included. And if you're using the fancy billet ones, its almost impossible to find those o rings on the PP site although they do most certainly sell them.

Nope, using new stock oil return tubes and I know those O rings are included with the gasket set! Or I could do like the PO of this did and not worry about the seals and pump a tube of black RTV in there!

[Jcslocum]

Originally Posted by GaryR

Thanks for the reinforcement Kevin, I have plenty of other places to spend that $150!

I have a set of ARP bolts in the garage and they have the flats on the head to hold them in place while torquing. They are for the 3.2. I'm building a 3.4 from an '87 3.2 and will upgrade to the ARP.

[GaryR]

Some more progress, case is split, now ready to get parts to the machine shop! Judging from the lack of sealant I believe this case has never been apart, but did the factory use blue seals on the cross bolts?

Crank looks great, Int. shaft gear perfect, Dist. drive perfect.


Camshafts have two nicked lobes, will be reground at Doherty.


Pistons and cylinders look great but will be checked by machine shop.


Found some good pitting on the intake studs so they are all coming out and being replaced..

[KTL]

Wow i'm surprised how clean the engine is inside compared to the outside. Previous user must have been pretty good about changing the oil.

Make sure to check all the pistons on the exhaust side of the crown. This is where valve contact from an overrev occurs on these pistons. The resulting "smileys" caused by kissing valves can be covered up by the carbon on the pistons. Point being is that the kisses on the pistons are not a big deal since you can easy grind them smooth. But obviously the kisses are indicative of an overrev and that would have you looking closer at the valvetrain.


Sent you a PM about some other stuff.

[r-mm]

What causes camshaft pitting? Even if they sat for some time I have a hard time imagining corrosion getting a foothold on these smooth, oil filmed lobes. Maybe I dont have a good understanding of how much if any moisture can make its way into a motor and how corrosion starts, but its always stumped me.

[KTL]

Cam pitting isn't corrosion. It's from an oil w/out enough anti-wear & extreme pressure additives. Typically its an oil with not enough ZDDP (zinc & phosphorus content). Doesn't take long for this to happen. Right around late 90s to early 2000s the oil formulations started to change to reduce the ZDDP content and folks in the engine servicing industry started finding those engines with flat/solid/mechanical cam systems were having pitting problems.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by KTL

Wow i'm surprised how clean the engine is inside compared to the outside. Previous user must have been pretty good about changing the oil.

Make sure to check all the pistons on the exhaust side of the crown. This is where valve contact from an overrev occurs on these pistons. The resulting "smileys" caused by kissing valves can be covered up by the carbon on the pistons. Point being is that the kisses on the pistons are not a big deal since you can easy grind them smooth. But obviously the kisses are indicative of an overrev and that would have you looking closer at the valvetrain.


Sent you a PM about some other stuff.

First thing I looked for Kevin! I've bent valves in my SC, know just what it looks like. Either way this is getting a full valve job with new race springs and Ti retainers so it's all good.. rockers look new, so I think all is well. Internals are all going to the machine shop to do all clearance measurements, re-round rods, stretch ARP bolts, etc. etc..

[GaryR]

Doing the tedious stuff now like removal of 27 years of aluminum corrosion via glass beads from apparently living in a salt filled tank...

The inside of the fan was the worst, fairly deep pitting but she will be good now.. big difference before and after. Engine air deflectors on the right (6 or the 10 pieces) were not salvageable, have perfect replacements thanks to an old SC box of parts and Tom B. from RennShop.

[r-mm]

Wow that looks great. Do you have a blast cabinet or did you outsource? Engine rebuilding hours = 75% engine parts cleaning. Next time round I'm either buying a cabinet or outsourcing. Do glass beads safely and effectively remove baked on gaskets?

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by r-mm

Wow that looks great. Do you have a blast cabinet or did you outsource? Engine rebuilding hours = 75% engine parts cleaning. Next time round I'm either buying a cabinet or outsourcing. Do glass beads safely and effectively remove baked on gaskets?

Russ - I have a fairly large cabinet, use Black Beauty grit for steel, glass beads for aluminum. You could feasibly use glass for gasket surfaces but it wouldn't be a good idea as it removes a small amount of the substrate along with the gasket residue. What works great is a small 90 degree die grinder with a 2-3" red scotch brite pad, cleans it up great, gets the crap out from around the studs, leaves the surface alone.

[gordner]

Worth a word of caution on the scotch brite pads, they work extrememly well but don't fool yourself into thinking that since they are just a scotch brite they will not remove metal. I had an over zealous apprentice grind a Twin Otter wing out of limits thinking that the scotch brite would not touch the aluminium, in some areas he removed as much as .200 of the metal behind the corrosion and paint.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by gordner

Worth a word of caution on the scotch brite pads, they work extrememly well but don't fool yourself into thinking that since they are just a scotch brite they will not remove metal. I had an over zealous apprentice grind a Twin Otter wing out of limits thinking that the scotch brite would not touch the aluminium, in some areas he removed as much as .200 of the metal behind the corrosion and paint.

Thanks, luckily the gasket surfaces aren't corroded so it's fairly easy to see the point that they are nice and clean, especially in this case as apparently the factory uses extremely little sealant compared to what I have seen on rebuilds.

You have to buy a new wing from de Havilland?

[gordner]

Viking Air in BC now owns all support for classic de Havilland aircraft, but the wing was exchanged with a company out of Mesa Arizona. The only airplane that I have ever exchanged wings on with regularity, the Twin otters and Beavers are interesting birds because you essentially cannot kill them, no matter how damaged they are they will be rebuilt, as no other aircraft out there does what they do.
Though now Viking is building new -400 Twin Otters so that may change, but 3 years ago the company I worked for had one of there -300's written off in a micro burst, so ins. paid them 2.4, they bought the hulk for 600 000 and rebuilt it at a cost of almost 2 M. Any other aircraft would have been scrapped at that level of repair.

[GaryR]

Finished parts waiting to dry. Ended up doing a light coat of Eastwood Argent Silver for future protection as the bead blasted surface was pitted by corrosion and and too uneven colored for clear (like back of cam chain boxes - just before new JB weld was applied).





Also - I decided to send my ECU out to Ingo for diagnostics so I don't have to worry about it. He found several solder joints like the one below which could lead to issues down the road so I am glad I did!



He is going to re-solder all questionable joints, replace the 24 pin socket with a newer 28 pin, and install a new 28 pin (stock configuration) chip, all for a VERY reasonable price IMO.. As this is supposedly out of a 58,000 mile road car I would advise all of you with 3.2's to send Ingo your ECU for evaluation!

[GaryR]

I should have added you get a two year warranty too!

[ischmitz]

Hey Gary, thanks for the kind words. I was browsing through your thread not realizing it was you until I saw the picture with the cracked solder joint. Then it hit me.....

I got to give it to you, this is impressive work you are doing here with the engine. I am impressed. From the first pictures this one definitely had a pretty hard life judging by all the grime and damage.

BTW: Your DME all done. See here on another thread where I showed the 28pin upgrade work. This was your DME late last night. 3.2 DME rework - upgrade to 28pin socket. Maybe you want to do a light media blast on the DME cover, too when you get it back. Just be careful since the Zink plating usually comes off along with the grime when you do. After that you should clear-coat it to prevent premature corrosion.

Cheers,
Ingo