3.2 running just a bit off after valve adjustment.

[whiz05403]

Fellow Pelicans,

So I just hit 500 miles on my rebuild so it was time for the 500 mile oil change, valve adjust, and head stud torque check.

So I went out and bought Kirk Engines Valve Lash tool and was looking forward to using it.

The last valve adjust I did of course was with the engine out which took about 15 minutes, I forgot what a pain it is with the engine installed.

Jury is still out on the Kirk Tool. In fact it took me over an hour just to get the hang of it on the #1 exhaust valve. One thing I noticed is I think this tool can cause a valve to be too tight. Instructions are to bring the gap to zero clearance then back off to attain the .004. The problem is that zero clearance is not as simple as it sounds. When you turn the screw in to attain zero clearance it's not a brick wall you hit when zero clearance is attained, you can feel contact but you can still turn the screw a bit more. So the question is where exactly is zero clearance? I went with just when I felt the two meet.

Anyways, I did the whole valve adjust, wiggled each rocker after the adjustment, and closed her all up.

Before the adjust the engine ran fricken great, it did have a decent amount of valve noise so I was looking forward to tightening them up a bit.

Now the engine runs a bit rough. Not missing but just a slight slight stumbling at idle and at various engine RPMs while in neutral. I thought maybe I had reconnected the O2 sensor improperly so I redid that, no change. I then disconnected the O2 sensor and she ran a bit better but not totally normal. She pulls pretty well but maybe a tiny bit less power.

What could be causing this?

Could I have some of the valves too tight??

The differences are very very subtle.

Oh yea, one other thing. When I got around to adjusting #4 I had the flywheel at the right hand notch, the one right next to the TDC notch. The rocker was loose during the adjustment. I didn't realize I did this until after I adjusted both #4 valves. I figured the valves were both shut so this adjust should be good to go. Maybe I was wrong there.

Your help is always appreciated. Thanks.

[SilberUrS6]

I'd run through the valve adjust one more time. IMO, zero clearance is when they first touch, not when you add torque to the screw. In any case, how much adjusting screw rotation do you get after contact? Another 12 degrees? Five degrees?

OK, so - leaving aside the valve adjust for a moment - you did more than one thing to the motor. Is it at all possible that *something* other than the valve adjust is wrong? You changed the oil, and the cap didn't get on just right, or the cap now leaks vacuum...

Check all the stuff you did, and verify. Did you move/bend a vacuum hose? It might have developed a crack. I'd take the valve covers off as a last resort, not a first resort.

[Lapkritis]

Probably too tight... did the same on my first valve adjustment ever. It was nice and quiet though... no more sewing machine noise. A little looser/tiny bit more noise but a ton more power (and safer on your valves).

[ischmitz]

Not sure but you need to screw up the valve adjustment pretty badly to make the engine run bad. A beginner usually struggles and ends up with getting too much lash when tightening the counter nut. And this makes the engine noisy but not necesarrily run bad unless it is excessive. If a valve is way too tight it won't close all the way and you run the chance of burning valve seats and getting poor running. Did you do the adjustment with a cold engine as required?

How about any vacuum leaks due to a hose that you disconnected (either on purpose or by accident). How about the fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose?

Cheers,
Ingo

[Hnichols]

You could remove the valve covers and simply check the clearance with the backside method without loosening/readjusting anything. That would be fairly easy, and you would know immediately if the valves are too tight. And then, only if they're too tight, would I try to readjust them.

[whiz05403]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

I'd run through the valve adjust one more time. IMO, zero clearance is when they first touch, not when you add torque to the screw. In any case, how much adjusting screw rotation do you get after contact? Another 12 degrees? Five degrees?

OK, so - leaving aside the valve adjust for a moment - you did more than one thing to the motor. Is it at all possible that *something* other than the valve adjust is wrong? You changed the oil, and the cap didn't get on just right, or the cap now leaks vacuum...

Check all the stuff you did, and verify. Did you move/bend a vacuum hose? It might have developed a crack. I'd take the valve covers off as a last resort, not a first resort.

After first contact, I could usually turn the screw another quarter turn at least.

Dammit, I don't want to waste another 11 quarts and three hours under the car again!!!

If I do I will be using the feeler gauge. The Tool was cool on the upper valves but a pain in the butt to hold still on the lower valves.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by whiz05403

After first contact, I could usually turn the screw another quarter turn at least.

Dammit, I don't want to waste another 11 quarts and three hours under the car again!!!

If I do I will be using the feeler gauge. The Tool was cool on the upper valves but a pain in the butt to hold still on the lower valves.

OK, now there's something. A quarter turn is A LOT of play. Here's a tip: you DO NOT have to drain out all the oil. If you lift that side of the car, you can get away with just losing the oil that's in the valve cover. This method has been described previously here - you'll have to search. Alternatively, you catch the oil and save it, then re-use it. If it were me, that's exactly how I'd do it - buy a clean pan, and a 3-gallon bucket with a lid. Drain the oil, put in bucket, close lid. All nice and clean to re-use after valve re-adjust.

[ischmitz]

Once I finish adjusting I do the following as a gut check: ID a perfectly adjusted valve (feeler gauge has just the right amount of drag). I pick one that is easily accessible. With the feeler out of the way you can get a "feel" for the gap by pushing and pulling the rocker.

Then you can tell how well others are adjusted by comparing the "feel" when moving their respective rockers. This give you a good idea whether you are in the ball park for the others and will tell a bad one quickly. Once you find a loose one or tight one use the feeler gauge to confirm your suspicion and then adjust as needed.

Also, a remote starter switch helps quite a bit to turn the engine. It makes the job 10 times faster.

Ingo

[kidrock]

I would probably check out my dizzy, wires and plugs before I went into the valves again. It's possible that something didn't go back together quite right.

Do the easy stuff first, just to make sure.

[ivath]

Hi, I have just recently done the exact same work with the Kirk Tool.
My engine were completely redone for 10000 miles ago. I should have adjusted them before , for now they were to loose.

I used the Kirk tool on all the exhaust valves and rechecked all with a feeler gauge. I felt it worked quite good as I was able to fit the feeler with a snug fit. On all the inlet valves I only used the Kirk tool as I now trusted the method/tool.

The engine now runs very quiet, but it runs differently. It feels like the idle is a bit to slow, but I actually think it is the same as before. It just runs in another way.
But, just like You I am thinking that I may have set the clearance to small on some of the inlet valves. Maybe I will recheck
By the way, I don't understand how You was able to turn the knob an extra quarter after the first touch. It should be impossible as that corresponds to 0.25mm!!




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[dan88911]

Hey guys thanks for posting. I am newbie with regards to valve adjustment. I plan to tackle it this summer. I bought the kirk tool and read up on the back side method as well.

After reading the post I wonder just how much if any difference in feel following the kirk tool adjustment. Should I expect if the follow up check is both the back side as Hnichols suggested and the feeler gauge recheck ivath suggested.

Or is that like spitting hairs and within excepted tolerances.

[Tippy]

You don't need to drain the oil to do this. Where did this myth come from?????

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Tippy

You don't need to drain the oil to do this. Where did this myth come from?????

Ronnie and Bob. They are notorious liars.

[ivath]

By the way, I have never drained the oil to adjust valves. Just lift the car on one side at the time and you will not loose any oil at all.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by ischmitz

I pick one that is easily accessible. With the feeler out of the way you can get a "feel" for the gap by pushing and pulling the rocker.

This is what I do. My engine is not wearing out and I check one or two with the feeler gauge, the wiggle the others and they all feel the same. I think one valve need an adjustment a few years ago, but that is about it.

[whiz05403]

Bump

[KTL]

The valve adjustment with the feeler gauge is definitely an acquired talent. I think a lot of guys end up with overly-loose valves using the feeler. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The engine is simply a little more clackety.

The valves end up loose because the bent feeler & the typical recommendation of "light drag" will cause you to have extra clearance between the adjuster foot and the valve tip. I'm of the opinion that the term used should be "considerable drag" because the bent feeler gauge is causing some extra clearance.

That's why I think the Kirk tool is a nice addition to people's toolbox because it takes some of the guesswork out of it. Then, once you get a feel for the amount of adjuster foot rotation and relative noise of the valvetrain, you will start to refine your ability to adjust the valves properly.

As to the problem, I agree with Ingo that you have to adjust the valves quite a bit off to get a problem. Either really noisy because they're really really loose, or way too tight and you'll have valves not fully closing during the valve opening & closing cycle and that can definitely mess with the behavior of the engine. I'd check them over again and see what you find. Adjusting valves w/the engine in place does indeed suck butt. To make turning over the engine a bit easier, you can pull the spark plugs (no worries of the potential for carbon dislodging & causing false valve clearance, since your heads, valves and pistons are still super clean) and that will also allow you to double check that all your plug wires are firmly attached to the plugs.

[dan88911]

bump

[TibetanT]

This is just a thought and observation from what you said in the first post, with regard to valve adjustment being done on this car.

After the valves were adjusted, did you set the timing? If you did not check or set the timing after the valves were done, this could possibly be one of the problems with the car not running correctly.

Hope this helps.

[KTL]

3.2L with Motronic fuel injection has no manual timing adjustment. Timing is entirely managed by the ECU. The only way to screw with the timing is to install the distributor w/out having the rotor properly indexed with respect to the crankshaft. We know Mike already had the distributor properly indexed because it ran well before the valve adjustment.