Need help with MSD 6AL install (replacing Permatune)

[GT2BH]

I decided to install an MSD 6AL 6425 to replace my Permatune on my '83 SC. I am pretty mechanically competent but I have zero experience with the electric side of car modifications, so this is my first time.

It seems to me that whomever installed the Permatune in the past completely butchered the wiring - or like I said I am unable to decipher the wiring due to lack of experience. I need help identifying the following:

There wires are coming from the topside of the engine wall


There are coming from under the fuel filter


This is what the current situation looks like


I'm currently mounding the MSD to the aluminium bracket but I'd like to get the wiring sorted first.. Any help on identifying the basics and cleaning up this mess would be appreciated

[wolds]

All the wires that connect to the MSD are in the connector you are holding in your hand, not sure what the cable coming from behind the fuel filter is, you're going to need to look at a schematic. Your msd comes with various wiring diagrams depending on install. I installed their Streetfire in my 83 and aside from having to flip flop the dizzy trigger and shield it was as drawn by MSD. Warren

I decided to install an MSD 6AL 6425 to replace my Permatune on my '83 SC. I am pretty mechanically competent but I have zero experience with the electric side of car modifications, so this is my first time.



It seems to me that whomever installed the Permatune in the past completely butchered the wiring - or like I said I am unable to decipher the wiring due to lack of experience. I need help identifying the following:



There wires are coming from the topside of the engine wall





There are coming from under the fuel filter





This is what the current situation looks like





I'm currently mounding the MSD to the aluminium bracket but I'd like to get the wiring sorted first.. Any help on identifying the basics and cleaning up this mess would be appreciated

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by GT2BH

I decided to install an MSD 6AL 6425 to replace my Permatune on my '83 SC. I am pretty mechanically competent but I have zero experience with the electric side of car modifications, so this is my first time.

It seems to me that whomever installed the Permatune in the past completely butchered the wiring - or like I said I am unable to decipher the wiring due to lack of experience. I need help identifying the following:

There wires are coming from the topside of the engine wall

The brown wires are grounds of course. They should be connected to the ground point to the left of the fuel filter. The red/black and red/white wires go to the defroster on the rear window.

Originally Posted by GT2BH

There are coming from under the fuel filter

That's the test port for checking dwell.

Originally Posted by GT2BH

This is what the current situation looks like

Hmmm... well that's a rat's nest. I went with the MSD Streetfire. I posted the wiring on the MSD side and the engine wiring harness side. I don't think it's different between the two. Let me find the thread and I'll post it in a few minutes.

Originally Posted by GT2BH

I'm currently mounding the MSD to the aluminium bracket but I'd like to get the wiring sorted first.. Any help on identifying the basics and cleaning up this mess would be appreciated

[tirwin]

Here is my layout:

Description - MSD Wire - Harness Wire

Coil positive - orange - white
12v switched - red - red
Neg mag pickup - green - green
Coil negative - black - brown
Tach - grey - black/violet
Pos mag pickup - violet - shield side of green wire

I suggest you read through this thread. It will help a lot.

MSD Streetfire install

Couple of things:

- What coil are you using?

- What plug wires do you have? You need to switch to Magnacor or Clewett if you have the original Berus still on the car. MSD specifically recommends against using solid core wires.

- Plug gaps. MSD recommends starting with .005" over the factory spec of .028" and increasing in .005 increments until fouling occurs and then backing off to the previous good value.

Dennis (timmy2) posted the part numbers to make a plug & play harness for the MSD. I'll look for that too.

[tirwin]

On a quick look I couldn't find the post from Dennis I'm thinking about so here is the part number I ordered from Mouser to make the connector.

You need a minimum of 6. Order extras just to be safe.
42460-1 TE Connectivity / AMP | Mouser

You need 1 of these.
180906 TE Connectivity / AMP | Mouser

Dennis is the man when it comes to the wiring harness stuff. He can certainly help sort out the mess and even build you a new harness if necessary.

Also I forgot to mention this before but you probably want to run a new heavy gauge wire from the starter to the MSD.

[timmy2]

Definitely will want the heavy gauge wire Tirwin mentions with constant 12vdc and an in line fuse. I normally install a 12 AWG red when building harnesses for MSD conversion.

Happy to help you with instructions, parts or even a replacement engine harness.


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[GT2BH]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Couple of things:

- What coil are you using?

- What plug wires do you have? You need to switch to Magnacor or Clewett if you have the original Berus still on the car. MSD specifically recommends against using solid core wires.

- Plug gaps. MSD recommends starting with .005" over the factory spec of .028" and increasing in .005 increments until fouling occurs and then backing off to the previous good value.

Dennis (timmy2) posted the part numbers to make a plug & play harness for the MSD. I'll look for that too.

Alright - I'm using the MSD Blaster High Vibration coil, Magnecor wires, and running stock gaps on my plugs which I think is 0.045. Do I need a special tool the adjust the gap on the plugs?

To take this step by step, should I strip down the Permatune connector and see whats up? Could it be that I can remove the PT connector and reconnect the wires to the MSD harness?

[GT2BH]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Definitely will want the heavy gauge wire Tirwin mentions with constant 12vdc and an in line fuse. I normally install a 12 AWG red when building harnesses for MSD conversion.

Happy to help you with instructions, parts or even a replacement engine harness.


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Hi Dennis

I'd appreciate any help - either by sorting out this mess I have or by building a new harness. My attitude towards this car is I want to do everything right from the beginning, so perhaps building a new harness would be the way forward.

[timmy2]

Click on my username and send me a PM or email and we can discuss the many solutions available to get your MSD installed.


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[GT2BH]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Click on my username and send me a PM or email and we can discuss the many solutions available to get your MSD installed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Done.. saw the thread in the classifieds, top notch stuff..


Ok, I visited the PT website and saw the connector pin setup Perma Tune High Performance Ignition Systems

Pics




Can anyone help map the existing connector setup to the MSD connector?

[timmy2]

Already done in a few threads, advanced search for Streetfire in the thread titles and go to the last page for the correct distributor wire orientation.

( I didn't receive any PM or email)


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[GT2BH]

I think I've figured it out. The only question is, the heavy red wire should connect to the fuse panel, however I have 2 wires already connected, both heavy red. Would one of these be for the now gone PT box?


This is what it looks like now, without the wiring

[jakz]

i just installed mine las month if you follow the instructions that came with the MSD is pretty straightforward, are you keeping the points?
Make sure you use a good ground and a good 12v source, i used the starter cable as my constant 12v and one of the fuses you show as the switched one im almost sure the heavy red wires you mention are stock.
youre gonna love the msd and the built in rev limiter is a nice feat

best luck with the install

[kltarga72]

Do not want to hijack this thread but wanted to know what would the symptom be using Beru plug wires with a MSD 6A besides radio interference (noise)?

Also I have a Permatune CD that has been in operation for several years now and want to swap my original Bosch coil with a MSD Blaster coil, are they compatible? I'm trying to eliminate a hesitation I have at lower rpm's but runs fantastic at 4000 rpm's and up
Thanks
Lash

[Eagledriver]

That 6 pin plug you show for the Permatune has almost everything you need. The green wire goes to green on the MSD, The shield wire with the black cover on it goes to the purple wire, The brown wire is ground. The red wire is probably power (check with a volt meter). The other 2 wires go to the coil. The only thing missing is a second power wire. On the MSD the fat red wire is unswitched power and the thin red wire is switched power. On my car I hooked up the unswitched power wire to one of those 3 fuses (check with voltmeter to find the one that is hot all the time). I hooked up the switched power to one of the 3 fuses that was hot when the key is turned on.

You can either hook up through the Permatune plug or run your own wires to the places they need to go.

-Andy

[GT2BH]

Done.. seems like everything is OK - thanks to Dennis for his input on this..



I've been having starter issues for a while so the car won't start again, but doubt this has to do with the MSD. Car turns but won't start. I have a new high torque starter on the way.

[timmy2]

Check the connections and routing of the new magnecor wires you have installed. I had the coil to distributor wire wanting to come out as it was a very tight fit.
Very easy to swap 2 wires as well.

Have you tested for a good strong spark on the plugs?

If you have good spark to each plug and it is firing the right plug at the right time, then fuel delivery may be your next challenge.


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[GT2BH]

Had the wires flipped (d'oh).. used the following and it worked:

1. Heavy red for constant power goes to one of the top 2 fuses on the rear 3 fuse panel that has an open terminal, fuse appropriately (top one?)
2. Heavy black ground it to a screw holding the fuse panel in place or other suitable good ground
3. Red connects to red wire in 6 pin connector (Center bottom)
4. Orange connects to white wire in 6 pin connector (Right bottom)
5. Black connects to the 2 brown wires in 6 pin connector (Right top)
6. Grey connects to purple/black wire in 6 pin connector (Center top)
7. Violet Connects to the green wire in 6 pin connector (Left bottom)
8. Green connects to the shield wire that may have black heat shrink in 6 pin connector (Left top)



What the best way to double check that everything is ok?

[timmy2]

Seems the violet and green are the 2 wires that occasionally need to be swapped when it won't run well. The Streetfire seems to like them the other way.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Seems the violet and green are the 2 wires that occasionally need to be swapped when it won't run well. The Streetfire seems to like them the other way.

Can't emphasize this enough. This was thoroughly debated in the thread I linked to. It ended up with me calling MSD support to prove it. That is also why I provided the wiring diagram. It would be odd (and confusing) to have two different products from the same company triggering on two different slopes but I suppose it is possible.