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so this is how a backdate project starts...
I have owned my 1985 Carrera Targa since 1989. It had 246,000 miles on it when the odometer broke a few years ago. I absolutely love the car. My wife and I were dating when I got it. We just had our 20 year anniversary. It runs great - original engine with a valve job at around 200,000 miles. No work ever on the trans.
About 8 or 10 years ago I was rear ended. I saw it coming and let off the brake. The car behind pushed me under a pickup....with a lowered hitch. I had to convince my insurance company not to scrap it. In the end, I got replacement fenders, a grafted on front end, a replacement hood and a new paint job. To that I added a new windshield, new dash, new body seals, new turn signal lenses, and a bunch of other stuff. It was a fairly complete exterior makeover. But that was a while ago. The car has taken a back seat to other things since then. I was driving it a year or so ago when all of a sudden, the targa vinyl let go in one big rip. I decided it was time to overhaul the top. I parked the car in a hangar and forgot about it. Then I started plugging into this forum. It had been a while. I started reading about backdating. I always liked the look of the earlier cars. My mind started justifying the project like this: The targa top needs an overhaul+ The wheels need refreshing and I always thought the back wheels were too narrow+ The AC doesn't work and when it did it didn't work well+ The interior is original and it looks dated and worn+ I never use the back seats+ I would like to take some weight out of the car+ The fenders and hood and nose aren't original+ Man I love this car = backdate it. The targa top has been overhauled by Dan Pechel. The windshield seal came from him. My other seals (targa bar and door seals) are from Pelican. Today I removed the targa bar and stripped two layers of paint from it. I also removed the front bar seal, the front windshield seal and two door seals and removed all the the adhesive...what a pain. I am planning a simple interior...perlon or squareweave. Rear seat delete. Heater backdated, ac delete, RS door panels, H4s with chrome surrounds, steel fenders, steel bumpers, ducktail, center hood gas filler, chrome side mirror, brightwork around the windows. Beyond that are details I have yet to figure out. I imagine that I will need a full suspension upgrade. I am talking to a shop about the body update and working up a budget. I am working in parallel on the interior material selection and supplier. Given my schedule I am expecting a year or more to complete. So this is one way a backdate project starts...wish me luck please. Mike |
Keep us posted, Mike. Be interesting to see how your project progresses. I've been looking for a needy 911 project car myself, to prevent me from tearing apart my '84 coupe. Got to find some way to be able to get my hands dirty. If nothing shows up before too long, my '84 may have to pay the price!
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Arne2,
If it hadn't been hit, I probably would have left it stock. It will be an interesting (hopefully fun) project. Pictures to follow shortly. Mike |
Mike,
Why not take the opportunity to go lightweight fiberglass everywhere you can? Serious weight loss would be my goal, since the car will never be original again.. Bumpers, hoods even fenders. There are tons of threads on this procedure. Good luck! You're a braver man than I! Nick |
NYNick,
I am not completely decided on the bumpers regarding steel vs fiberglass. I am getting pricing and will look at the FG samples before deciding. I also would like to understand the weight difference. Mike |
I just finished installing all the fg body panels on my 78 backdate i want super light so only the doors and roof are steel. I got my fg parts from gt racing except the hood i got from tre very happy with the quality from both.good luck backdated targas look cool.
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Sebscst - is yours a track car, daily driver or weekender? Do you have a thread on your build?
Here are some shots from the accident: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404696512.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404696658.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404696671.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404696527.jpg |
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Just me, perhaps, but while I can deal with 'glass bumpers and even a 'glass hood, for street use I really prefer steel fenders. If I backdate a car, that's how I'd do it.
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I stripped the paint from the targa bar - I still need to sand it for an even finish. I also just removed all the door/targa seals and cleaned the surfaces of adhesive:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404697174.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404697230.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404697347.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1404697577.jpg |
I ordered some POR to coat the seal surfaces. While I wait for that I think I will start the A/C delete next as I am tired of stripping glue.
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Hey spyder itll be a weekender. Ive got some build pics but there was a big oops we just noticed. Ill post a pic and see if any one else can catch it. Your car is looking good again!
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1412279891.jpg |
Okay, so I have had a few days to start stripping some items off... the front compartment HVAC system, the cruise control module, the HVAC controls on the dash, the lower console, the center heater console between the seats, the carpets, the rear seats and side panels, the engine blower motor and ducting and cruise control components, and the AC components...and bits and bobs. Fun. I like taking things apart...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415937446.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415937470.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415937498.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415937521.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415937590.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415937622.jpg |
Next I will remove the headlight and windshield washer systems and the A/C hoses front to back.
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AC hoses are removed...it was easier to cut them into small sections. lots of clamps underneath. I found it easier to put the car on jackstands and remove the wheels.
I also spent a few hours removing a leaking cam cover and cleaning the old gasket material off. I am waiting for the tensioner oil line o-ring replacement to put that back together. In the meantime, I started stripping out wiring looms from the car. What a PITA. I will be removing: cruise control headlight washer system auto heat system all interior lighting (except gauge lighting) stereo and speakers power door lock systems power seat system all HVAC sub-systems I would like to remove the power mirrors too, but I need to find a decent looking alternative.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416697243.jpg |
Word of advice on any fiberglass pieces you use. If you decide that some panel will be replaced with a fiberglass one - take a lot of time trying to fit it before you make any cuts or changes. In my experience, all fiberglass panels arrive in varying degrees of not right. Some are better than others and some are ****. I have twice bought backdate fenders (from GT Racing) and twice cut them up in an attempt to make them work and then eventually given up, gone back to modifying steel and sold the fibreglass fenders for half what they cost me on EBay. I should have simply sent them back before I attacked them. My little business specializes in backdates and we have decided that, whenever possible, we are using steel panels. Even fiberglass hoods let down the general look of the bodywork and paint. As a general rule Fglass is OK for bumpers and engine cover but will still require a certain amount of "fitting". I would avoid it anywhere else unless appearance is secondary to weight. I made one other exception in my own RSRish car in that I have a Fglass front hood but only because I didn't want to cut a hole in an original hood to accommodate the centre filler.
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Okay...kinda strange..I was just on that thread Mr Merk.
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Got to see one in person at Palooza this year
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...e1&oe=54D8FAA5 https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...91&oe=54D70772 https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...60014215_o.jpg I love it, wife doesn't. |
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The fenders bolted right on. Here they are in their raw form as shipped to me. (The GTracing bumper did take significant amount of tweaking however.) http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1416750512.jpg |
An update...more wiring work stripping out harnesses. Removed the fuse box too as it will be updated. Having a few issues with the wiring, but I need to work system by system. Looks messy, but there is some method to the madness.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1418349759.jpg
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Taking a break from wiring, I decided to change out the leaking cam cover gasket on the right hand side. It was relatively easy with the exhaust and lower engine tin removed (from taking off the AC compressor bracket).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1418350014.jpg I will need to replace the cat to muffler bracket as it was rusted away and I had to cut the muffler bolts off. I then decided to change out the motor mounts. The bolts to the crossmember were seized and in trying to get them off I tore the crossmember on both sides. I have a beefed up one on order. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1418349972.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1418349994.jpg |
Back to the wiring while I wait for the new crossmember. I think I will remove th fog light system too. I never used it.
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This car is such a survivor, you'll be joined at the hip after all those miles and rebuilding it. Cool story, and makes me optimistic about my 136k miles 3.2.
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Thanks, the car has been brilliant. I think it stranded me twice in 25 years...once for cylinder 3 temp sensor and once for the a.c. pulley breaking loose from the crank. Other than that, it has been - turn the key and drive away.
The only real engine work other than tune ups has been one alternator somewhere around 100,000 miles and a valve job at 200,000 miles. It has earned this. |
Okay, So I am thinking about updating and relocating the fuse panel(s) in the frunk. I am looking at all the real estate behind the smugglers box where the fresh air blower and ducting was. The wires seem pretty long and should make it there. The battery will be relocated in the smugglers box anyway. The only wires I will need to extend are the lights and the ones going down by the fuel tank to where ever they go (tunnel?).
Does anyone know of any reason I can't/shouldn't do this? |
Accomplished some thing yesterday -
Installed new motor mounts: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419787288.jpg A new Rennline crossmember: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419787326.jpg and reinstalled the muffler with new CAT bracket and new hardware: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419787386.jpg Then I made a plate to block off where the A/C compressor bracket was. I still need to paint this plate: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419787465.jpg |
I tried to install the new 930 air duct for backdating heat, but that piece hits the oil line to the tensioners on the left hand side. There is no way it is going to work...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419787650.jpg So I went back to cutting and removing wire in the frunk for systems I don't want/need: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1419787715.jpg I think I am done removing wiring up front. I am waiting for some new fuse and relay blocks to start putting it back together. I still have a few wiring looms to remove int eh cockpit. That will be next. |
I am spending a lot of time in the wiring end. Here is a thread related to my recent work relocating the battery and the fuse block:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/842943-battery-relocate-fuse-box-relocate.html#post8429937 |
While still working the wiring issues on the other thread, I finally got the parts I needed to finish by heat backdate. I got some 2.5" diameter SCAT, a 3" long 2.5" diameter aluminum pipe and a silicone reducer 2.75" to 2.5" to interface with the heat exchangers. It is a tight fit, but it all works - so far.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1425267365.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1425267410.jpg Once I finish the wiring, I will drive it for a while and then tackle the steering and suspension. |
As I finish up the wiring (hopefully this weekend), I also wanted to change the oil (Rotella T6) and close up the holes left when I removed the A/C hoses. I found some sheet metal screws at the Home Depot (lower right in photo) that incorporated a galvanized washer with neoprene sealing washer. One box of 100 was less than $10. I took the washers off an used them under the original clamp screws (top in photo). That should do the trick.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428173306.jpg |
Okay, I finished the electrical system update yesterday. I opened a new thread more appropriately named regarding my electrical system experiment. It ican be found here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/859688-updating-most-electrical-system-experiment.html I washed her, changed the oil and took her for a drive for the first time in about 4 months. What a thrill! Everything is working great. Time for a Rogue Hazelnut Brown Ale, followed by a Black Butte Porter, followed by... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428547315.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428547458.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428547671.jpg I still have a lot of work to do, but everything I have done works - the backdated heat, the oil leak fix, the new engine mounts and crossmember, the new electrical system. I am a happy camper. I am debating whether I install the H4s now or start working on the targa polish/install, door and targa seal install. Hmmm....the beer comes first. |
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H4's for sure. Fun, fast, remarkably better looking. Pretty much plug and play. Then more Black Butte. |
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Small mirrors, add the chrome small opening quarter windows and trim, maybe an early wing and you can join the club.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/852696-exact-location-chrome-mirrors.html |
Exactly!
Oh, and caster wheels up front? |
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I had a few hours to burn today so I started with polishing my now unpainted targa bar using 3M fine "0" synthetic steel wool:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428719833.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428719844.jpg It turned out pretty good. I think it will be easier to polish now once it is reinstalled. I put some 3M 4718 foam on top of the targa structure. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428719857.jpg then I POR15-d the vent areas that rub against the targa bar and installed new targa top alignment pin socket seals: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428719872.jpg Finally I started working on my replacement water catch and fresh air vent system. When you remove the fresh air blower this front hood vent is wide open to allow air and water to come in. I found that a section of ABS drain pipe can be cut to fit perfectly within the orginal front vent duct channels. Now I have to cap each end and come up with drains and a possible fresh air vent path....hmmm... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1428719889.jpg |
Polish the bar now while it's off, once it's on its to hard to get the edges. You can use rubbing compound and then polishing compound with an electric polisher and be done in a couple of hours.
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