Spark Plug & Tach job results in no-start

[EricAlborg]

Aloha, pelicans...

Recently acquired an '84 and trying to get her baselined. Got rid of the hideous exhaust, replaced CV boots, pulley and was moving on to a few other items.

Last weekend I was working to put back in the original tachometer and replaced the ignition (spark plugs, distributor rotor, spark wires).

I go to start the car, and, nada. I even get a large backfire. So, I retrace my steps. Make sure wires going to right cylinder. Double check firing order and connections to distributor cap. Double double checked everything is on right.

Then, I disconnect the green wire on the coil and put the car to "on" and touch the green wire to the pole of the coil. Nada.

So before I go on a witch hunt, I thought I'd ask -- is there anything related to the tachometer and the ignition that could be causing my non-start?

Mahalo to all of you.

[DRACO A5OG]

Hey Eric,

Welcome aboard.

Okay couple of questions:

Before the Tach and Ignition swap was the car driveable?

Did you verify Tach was installed correctly? Our 3.2 ECU aka DME needs the reference sensor which is tied to the Tach to operate properly.

Now the cap, rotor, plugs and wires, What brand?

Wires, you need to insure that the connectors on the cap and plugs are fully seated, you should feel or hear a click. Sometimes caps are so tight, it creates an air pocket and won't allow the connector to seat on to the cap. I like to use a pin tool to release the air and insure it is seated.

Cap, make sure cap is seated snug and properly seated, if loose, set it properly and insure L clamps are in the lock position. Most common missed maintenence is dropping some engine oil under the felt pad on the rotor mount. 5 drops will do yeah.

Plugs, our cars favor standard copper Bosch or NGK. Again make sure it is properly gapped .032 inch.

Also lets make sure you have 12.6 volts prior to start at the battery.

Aloha!

Jim

[T77911S]

the large backfire was due to the plug wires/dist 180 out.

[DRACO A5OG]

Wow, I wonder how he could have done that???

[EricAlborg]

Thank you, gentlemen.

Let me answer the questions first.

Before the Tach and Ignition swap was the car drivable?

Yes. Drove just fine.

Did you verify Tach was installed correctly? Our 3.2 ECU aka DME needs the reference sensor which is tied to the Tach to operate properly.

This is a little harder to answer. So possibly, no. But when I took out the old tach, I took out the old wiring. Then I tried to match up the new tach wiring with the 1985 tach wiring diagram. There were 6 connections.

Now the cap, rotor, plugs and wires, What brand?

Yes, new everything. Beru cap. Karlyn wires. Copper plugs.

As for the rest, the dropping oil part is something I definitely missed. And I must have pulled everything apart (at least twice) to make sure it was all seated correctly. I didn't do the oil trick on the felt pad. Learn something new on each post! Do you just mean drop a few drops down the shoot (where the rotor cap sits)?

T77911S -- do you mean that I have the cap on 180 degrees incorrectly? Check the picture below, but I am almost certain I didn't do that.



Thanks again, gents. Advise on what you think my best plan of action is tonight.

[dipso]

Is the rotor on backwards?

[EricAlborg]

You mean the distributor rotor cap? I think it can only go on one way? See pic below to see how the notch fits into where its seated only one way.



But please tell me if you think different!

[timmy2]

Not sure due to the angle in the picture you posted, but is the number 1 lead possible one position too far to the left?

That would put everything out of whack.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Not sure due to the angle in the picture you posted, but is the number 1 lead possible one position too far to the left?

That would put everything out of whack.

Bingo. First thing that caught my eye.

Move all wires one position clockwise.

See post 10 and 13.

Troubleshooting help after tune-up. 3.2 Carrera

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by EricAlborg

Do you just mean drop a few drops down the shoot (where the rotor cap sits)?

Yes, there is a felt pad under the rotor shoot. use a pin tool to remove it ( don't lose it ) then take a small screw driver, dip it into the quart of oil and drip 5 drops down the shoot.

+1 what the above gentlemen stated, they know what they are talking about. You should be good to go from there. :-)

[boyt911sc]

Eric,

The distributor cap looks too advance based from your picture. My '89 cabriolet has cylinder 1# and #4 wires at 12 and 6 o'clock respectively. Did you pull out the distributor (not cap) lately? Hook up an inductive timing light to check your ignition timing. You could be way off the timing mark. Keep us posted.

Tony

[EricAlborg]

Great advice all around. I will take the suggestion and report back soon.

[EricAlborg]

Rotated all plug wires on the distributor cab, by one clockwise. Still, no joy. And I got a VERY LOUD backfire to boot.

The picture below wasn't very helpful, but this shows the plug wires and the firing order (which I'm sure you all know).



This begs the question of whether something I did with the tach was amiss. Or whether maybe the car is set up for different timing.

[timmy2]

Looking at your picture you have the wires installed for a clockwise rotation according to the numbers on them.
The picture on the sticker shows the correct location of the wires if it is correct for your car. It is as viewed from above.

Does your distributor turn clockwise or counterclockwise?

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Does your distributor turn clockwise or counterclockwise?

FYI, my bone-stock 85 US 3.2 turns clockwise.

The part number of your ignition sticker (930.006.509.00) according to Aase is for a 79-83 911 or 911 Turbo.

Again, according to Aase (and as I have in my 85), the ignition sticker for 84-89 Carrera is part number 930.006.509.01 and shows clockwise disty rotation:



I'm guessing your R&R the cap & wires by following the sticker, rather than replacing in the order the wires & cap came off . . .

Still doesn't explain why you have the 'wrong' sticker in your car. Is the sticker original to the car? Is the body shell really from 84?

[timmy2]

I knew the 3.2 should turn clockwise. Wondered about the sticker. Possible 3.0 block transplant? Orange fan housing?
Just exploring the possibilities.
Take off the distributor cap and using the fan rotate the engine clockwise and watch the rotor turn to confirm.
Or just check the engine type and serial number.
What is the part number on the distributor?

[T77911S]

i dont know the 3.2 distributor. there may be a line on the top edge of the dist with the cap removed. that should be #1. put the cap on and give it a twist to make sure it is locked into place. then start with #1 where that line is at.

also with the rotor on, gice that a little twist to make sure it is locked into its slot.

i take it you did not remove the disttributor???

the wire ends may be in the correct place on the cap, but verify each wire goes to the cyclinder it says it goes to.

[EricAlborg]

My apologies. I pulled the wrong sticker to show. I was a little haphazard this morning and pulled a pic from online. I took an actual picture below. Damned misinformation. I'll correct the post so that no one walks down the wrong path. Here's the right one.



As much as I would love to try to reshuffle wires and turn the car over, I think I need to take a little more proactive and thorough approach. Let me know whether you guys thing this is the right next steps.

(1) Take off distributor cap and turn engine to TDC (Z1) marking to see where distributor rotor is. Turn engine by hand. According to the right picture, it should TDC (Z1) be between 4-5 o'clock and 10-11 o'clock on stock distributor set up.

(2) Take Timmy2/Boyt911c advice. I switched all the plugs +1 clockwise. But I'm not 100% sure that's right with my car. I'm going to try to find the notch in the distributor cap and try to reorient plugs.

Thanks all. Will report back soon.

[Flat Six]

Originally Posted by EricAlborg

My apologies. I pulled the wrong sticker to show. I was a little haphazard this morning and pulled a pic from online. I took an actual picture below. Damned misinformation. I'll correct the post so that no one walks down the wrong path. Here's the right one.

Oops. Well, that makes more sense. Just went out to the garage and verified on my 85: my #1 plug wire is installed in the disty cap where you have your #5 wire plugged in (just right/CW of the hold down screw).

Good luck.

[timmy2]

No worries re the sticker, just had me wondering and exploring multiple possibilities.