A/C Reverse The Gases in Early Model 911's

[kenikh]

Ronknees a lot of things... But a liar??? Come on dude.

[Ronnie's.930]

^^^^ Ha! Hilarious - bet some of the folks here in the "non-turbo-911" forum are wondering about that "Ronknees" reference!

And watch it, bro, or I just might assemble a "party kit" picture post with your name on it . . . instead of Paul's!!!

[kenikh]

LOL! Back to the regularly scheduled broadcast...

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

One thing I want to mention about the various vent temp pictures I've posted (which Bob is already aware of); those were originally not taken to post in a Pelican thread, but were taken to send to Bob and Eric early-ish last summer when I had completed some major, custom changes to my a/c system, was really happy with the results and wanted to share it with them (with my usual "getcha suuummm" commentary, of course). In fact, I sent them details and pictures of the work for about a month as it was taking place - including my several eff ups along the way. In other words, and as Bob mentioned, the pictures are not staged and I have no reason to lie about anything here.

I agree that the pictures are not staged.

But they do represent a practical impossibility.

Would you put a glass water in your freezer and expect it not to freeze...?

Yes, your freezer produces a lot more COLD but the physics are the same.

It might take a long time but on a hot and humid day such as is often encountered in your area an evaporator operating at sub-freezing levels WILL FREEZE UP!

There is a solution, one that most heat pumps operating in space heating mode use.

They use 2 heat sensing elements. One of those elements(A) is located nearest to the point on the EVAPORATER/(condenser) that is expected to freeze initially, near the TXV outlet, say. The other(B) is located mid-point in the EVAPORATOR/(condenser).

As the EVAPORATOR/(condenser) CHILLS both sensors will indicate a declining temperature.

Ice will act as a insulate, so, once the sensor near the inlet(A) stops falling in temperature vs the mid-point sensor, ice has begun to form around and the EVAPORATOR/(condenser) must be put through a reverse cycle, DEFROST the EVAPORATOR/(condenser).

If you even have a chance to see one in operation, during the relatively brief reverse/defrost cycle, it looks as if the heat pump has caught fire, heavy plumes of vapor rising into he air.

This is what bothers me about Charlie's refrigerant charge method, change to get the lowest possible vent temps, oftentimes sub-freezing temperatures.

But.

That would mean that the thermostatic control switch MUST be tightly calibrated. Calibrated such that on the average evaporator operating temperature must be above 32dF.

So now you have a significantly undercharged system that is not fully capable of combating a full heat load.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

this thread is a perfect place to finally put a stop to you trolls that ruin every single a/c thread anyone starts here regardless of the subject matter and its been going on for years here

about 1/2 of you on here are already here posting your destructive crap

I made this tread for exposing trolls that ruin all the A/C threads regardless of subject, inducing all those I never go in to

To the people reading this but don't post here, I know you know what I am talking about

None poster I am sorry if I have ever offended you in anyway with my attitude, its been caused mostly by my disgust from the trolls that are here in the A/C threads that have an agenda to disrupt ruin

Yes, PERFECT, indeed.

You could squelch me by simply supplying before and after data indicating your reverse flow technique yields an improvement in our factory A/C performance.

You keep suggesting that some interested DIY'er try it in order to prove YOU correct.

But most DIY'er are bright enough to see the illogic in your idea.

Now that's true BS!

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by kenikh

Ronknees a lot of things... But a liar??? Come on dude.

kenikh
I don't generally call someone this but in this case I felt it appropriate and warranted

On An automobile this is impossible

He kept repeatedly showing a handheld gun showing this, said repeatedly his a/c system does not freeze up at all at, with air vents he shows a hand gun showing this 29 degree temperature and states he does this for long periods of time

This is A LIE

on earth this is thermodynamically impossible without freezing up the evaporator and stopping function under the laws of thermodynamics

[wwest]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

OK Reid, I am starting to see your process. You dealt with condenser cooling capacity by sending hot gas to the front condenser first. You juiced up that heat exchanger by using PFC and a massive blower. That is a crucial idea. That is what Porsche did on the 964. It worked so well that they eliminated the rear lid condenser completely. I now understand why adding Spal fans to the rear lid seen unnecessary to you. If your front condenser is that good, who needs more rear condenser power.
Many of us who have preserved the stock layout have tried to juice it up with other choices. Wwest and I have increased the air flow over the rear condenser. Griff has added a rear fender condenser/fan. These are all ways of upgrading condenser capacity. Yours is a good way, but it is not the only good way.
If I was dealing with a clean sheet design, I would probably got the 964/993 route. Your solution is really a variant of that. There is no need for only one design to be OK.
Dave

"massive blower"

Dave, you need to look back at the blower picture he represented that he used in the initial "reverse the gasses" work.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

kenikh
I don't generally call someone this but in this case I felt it appropriate

Hubris + envy + self doubt = making a fool of one's self!

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Hubris + envy + self doubt = making a fool of one's self!

you are a Liar!!!
FOR WHATEVER REASON

[KelogGes]

29 degree vent temps and no freezing up is a lie

[Oh Haha]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

29 degree vent temps and no freezing up is a lie

Ok, NOW I see why you question Ronnie's claims. Your explanation of why helped me understand but why call him a liar? To me, that is just the wrong tactic to take in trying to convince a group that your way is better.

I don't mean to sound like Dr.Phil.

Obviously, you are passionate about your work and that's good.

I'm stepping out of the thread. I wish you the best.

[KelogGes]

[KelogGes]

The TAN SWAN




The BLACK SWAN












R134A 0.95 lbs of refrigerant total used








PROVEN TRUTH !!!

[wwest]

Speaking of sub-freezing temperatures....

You still haven't explained those negative PSI readings on the suction side along with decent high side PSI indications.

I've explained how sub-freezing vent temperature "snapshot" guage readings can be had without anyone lying...

Your turn...

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

. . . but why call him a liar?

That's hubris & envy working away at Reid's delicate ego. I've demonstrated that his many years worth of boasts about superior products and methods, and his bashings of obsolete technologies and ideas, are unfounded, and his reaction to said exposure is to lash out.

[KelogGes]

Prove Me Wrong

[wwest]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Prove Me Wrong

NO! We're going to take it for granted that you're the one wrong since there is no existing logic to warrant a DIY'ers, or anyone's research into your invention.

Why not a start..

Explain why you think your "reverse the flow" idea will improve the A/C performance of our A/C systems.

[wwest]

Archimedes UNDERSTOOD what made the water rise in his bath....

Do you UNDERSTAND why your idea would improve our A/C..??

[DaveMcKenz]

I agree that we need credibility for the Reverse idea. I really don't care WHY anyone thinks it should or shouldn't work better than stock. Reid had an idea, he tested it, and thought it worked very well. I wish Reid would provide some of his observations on cooling performance on the day he first tried the idea. He must have seen lower pressures or lower vent temps or something. I'm the kind of guy who drives around with a thermometer in my a/c vent. I know when something is wrong. I bet he saw something that made him think he had found an improvement. He may not know why it works. If it really works, we can figure out why later. Either way. He says it works, so either take him at his word and try it. Maybe it will work. Remember, it might not work, and that's the risk you take.
Take care,
Dave

[KelogGes]

Thanks Dave as always for YOUR open minded insight