A/C Reverse The Gases in Early Model 911's

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by pazuzu

um...my underbelly condenser is the first one in the gas flow path, so i guess someone else discovered this and implemented it in a working system long before you did.

roflmaO

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

No extra hose?
It seems the hose will go from compressor to front condenser, then back to rear deck condenser, the forward again to receiver/drier, then evaporator.
That is pretty much one extra trip front and back to pick up rear condenser. I'm not sure that's really a problem, but it does mean extra hose, unless I am missing something. (Which is very possible.)
Dave

Originally Posted by ganun

Must be using the front condenser first then going back to the rear cond then finally on to the evap.
Makes some sense to dump the most heat away from the engine, just more hose.

BINGO!!! ganun You win a KEWPIE DOLL AND A GOLD STAR! You were the first to figure this out from the Simple clues I gave

This has never been done by Porsche or anyone else for that matter with this new way

THE gases always went to the rear first than the front
UNTIL I DISCOVERED THIS FLAW AND REVERSAL OF THE GASES


Believe it or not the hose length is about the same KINDA

REMEMBER I AM NOT SPOON FEADING YOU REGARDING THIS

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by davemckenz

no extra hose?
It seems the hose will go from compressor to front condenser, then back to rear deck condenser, the forward again to receiver/drier, then evaporator.
That is pretty much one extra trip front and back to pick up rear condenser. I'm not sure that's really a problem, but it does mean extra hose, unless i am missing something. (which is very possible.)
dave

your doing fine!!

[911pcars]

Thanks for attempting to think out of the box despite the fact what you describe is merely changing the sequence of which condenser first receives heat-laden freon and not really reversing the refrigerant path through the system.

Imagine a true flow reversal where the high pressure side of the compressor (red) redirects to the evaporator but whose flow is restricted by the downstream expansion valve. A rupture in the former low pressure (blue), now high pressure line is inevitable. Uh uh.



The system would work most efficiently if there were only one condenser (as pictured), but in the front and with a high capacity to transfer max. heat, enough to eliminate the need for an engine-mount condenser. It is this condenser that unnecessarily contributes to heat load. It is there only because it's in an available space with air flow.

Sherwood

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

roflmaO

Issac Newton actually became reclusive when folks beat the crap out of some of his ideas.

No risk of that here given your pompousness.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Issac Newton actually became reclusive when folks beat the crap out of some of his ideas.

No risk of that here given your pompousness.

ROFLMA

YOU and your Posts: 8,398 need a life outside these treads

[db_cooper]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

BINGO!!! ganun You win a KEWPIE DOLL AND A GOLD STAR! You were the first to figure this out from the Simple clues I gave

This has never been done by Porsche or anyone else for that matter with this new way

THE gases always went to the rear first than the front
UNTIL I DISCOVERED THIS FLAW AND REVERSAL OF THE GASES


Believe it or not the hose length is about the same KINDA

REMEMBER I AM NOT SPOON FEADING YOU REGARDING THIS

That is not "reversal of the gases"..it is correctly called a "rerouting of the gases".

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

ROFLMA

YOU and your Posts: 8,398 need a life outside these treads

Your Mom tells me the same thing.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by KelogGes

ROFLMA

YOU and your Posts: 8,398 need a life outside these treads

So sez the guy who's sole purpose for posting is to troll forum members that are interested in the topic of 911 a/c . . .

[crownarch]

Originally Posted by db_cooper

That is not "reversal of the gases"..it is correctly called a "rerouting of the gases".

BINGO!!! You also win a KEWPIE DOLL AND A GOLD STAR! You weren't the first to figure this out from the SimpleTON clues he gave

[tirwin]

Whatever you do, don't cross the streams!

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by tirwin

Whatever you do, don't cross the streams!

Stream control is very important (note the "outside the box" skill displayed below)!

[DaveMcKenz]

It's OK guys.
It turns out it is reversal of condenser order. He wanted to present a riddle, so he said reversal of gases to add a little mystery. It's either a good idea or it's not. Reid claims it works well. I can see an advantage, but also more hose length.
Anyone want to try it, then you can confirm or deny his layout superiority. Until then we'll just have to guess, or take Reid at his word.
Dave

[Tippy]

Yeah, someone do this already and report back.

One day, gonna put AC in mine.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by DaveMcKenz

It's OK guys.
It turns out it is reversal of condenser order. He wanted to present a riddle, so he said reversal of gases to add a little mystery. It's either a good idea or it's not. Reid claims it works well. I can see an advantage, but also more hose length.
Anyone want to try it, then you can confirm or deny his layout superiority. Until then we'll just have to guess.
Dave

Again Correct DAVE!
You seem to be almost the only one here that thinks WITH THEIR BRAIN, Thanks for taking the time and effort to learn.

You WILL DEFINITELY, SEE AN ADVANTAGE WHEN YOU TRY IT! Time will tell as you figure it out! I am not leading you on a path of BS, I would not do that to anyone!

Instead of of all those opening their mouth to disrupt AND BS!

IT FOR SURE WORKS, and even works better with my PFC's, but my PFC's work so well it won't hurt me to give it to the world as a Gift!

I have a well known Porsche repair shop near me that LOVES THIS modification after I did it on one of this client 911's after which I did this on another one of his clients 911's that was even more complicated, and proved it to him and its a major selling point now for him and has has done several other 911 with very happy clients over this; he is not going to be too happy probably about me giving this to the world!

But ITS MINE TO GIVE I discovered it on my own and proved it to myself in the middle of the night and I only gave it to him to use!

GIVE THIS INFO TO ANY early model 911 owner that has OEM A/C and he will sincerely thank you the moment he try's this

As this new 911 A/C GIFT from my heart spreads through out the world I know I will be remembered for doing something nice that affects others


The Nay Sayers in this tread and on this topic for whatever reason have to be the stupidest people in the world when given a TRUE GIFT FOR FREE, THEIR stupidity is really fun to watch from my perspective LoL

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Yeah, someone do this already and report back.

One day, gonna put AC in mine.

Tippy
YOU NEED MORE THAN just THIS I think from what you told me in the past

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Yeah, someone do this already and report back.

One day, gonna put AC in mine.

Originally Posted by KelogGes

Tippy
YOU NEED MORE THAN just THIS I think from what you told me in the past

That's a brilliant conclusion there, Reid! Did you not see the 2nd line in Tippy's post?

And to think you have the nerve to call other people "slow & stupid"!

[djpateman]

Okay, now I understand. I was not fully aware of the sequencing of condensers. Also, your terminology was a little too cryptic.
I think that the factory routing was an attempt to keep high-delta-T's; this generally results in greater heat transfer. The high temperature gas is cooled by the engine compartment condenser with medium air temperatures. Then the medium temperature gas is cooled by the front condenser with low temperature air. Theoretically this would result in lower final liquid gas temperature. However, when theory meets reality, then things can change. If the front condenser now does almost all of the cooling, then the rear condenser may even be a liability. I would carefully check inlet and outlet temperatures on the rear condenser to ensure it is still contributing to the cooling; it may not be, and in that case should be removed.

[wwest]

First routing the HOT gas to the front lip condenser and then to the rear lid condenser leaves us with the EXACT same overall refrigerant condensing capability. Plus, isn't the total surface area for heat transfer a lot lower for the front lip condenser?

Net negative for A/C..??

My conclusion is that the only advantage is less heat load to/on the engine.

It seems to me that making use of the cabin heat blower not only increases the efficiency of the rear lid condenser substantively, and only when/as needed, but is also as aid to cooling the engine via the extraction of heat from the exhaust manifold as is done with the 964/993 series.

[KelogGes]

Originally Posted by djpateman

Okay, now I understand. I was not fully aware of the sequencing of condensers. Also, your terminology was a little too cryptic.
I think that the factory routing was an attempt to keep high-delta-T's; this generally results in greater heat transfer. The high temperature gas is cooled by the engine compartment condenser with medium air temperatures. Then the medium temperature gas is cooled by the front condenser with low temperature air. Theoretically this would result in lower final liquid gas temperature. However, when theory meets reality, then things can change. If the front condenser now does almost all of the cooling, then the rear condenser may even be a liability. I would carefully check inlet and outlet temperatures on the rear condenser to ensure it is still contributing to the cooling; it may not be, and in that case should be removed.

Besides you also apparently just leaning there are a front and rear sequenced different mismatched front and rear sets of condensers, you need to learn about the other well known A/C design flaw that the body of the this model of 911 was never designed for A/C it was put in only as an afterthought, and the condensers were too small for proper A/C cooling and also the system was designed for R-12 refrigerant which is much colder, not R134A we use today, the tube and fin technology on the oem condensers is obsolete to use with today's R134A refidgerent