M&K muffler problem - help please - Page 2

RetroSC · 01-05-2016, 01:40 PM

How could this be so far off the stock unit? The center of the inlet flange measured to the center of the muffler should be the same as the stock unit, no way around that, and no way the process of welding stainless made that measurement off. Bending and twisting are one thing, shrinking and stretching not.

SCadaddle · 01-05-2016, 02:02 PM

Looking and thinking about the position of the outlet pipes on that muffler, I'm thinking hmmm, looks like maybe somebody used the center of the cooling fan which is offset to the left of the center of the car. So I go out in the garage to check that on my SC. Pull the rear decklid cable and the decklid is stuck!

LeftCoastErik · LeftCoastErik's Garage

I just installed a single in-GT3 style on my car. Previous comments were spot on, regarding fitting up of aftermarket parts, especially exhaust.
Brian was clear about the muffler possibly not fitting with the IROC/RSR bumper. He was right, the new bumper is so much more flush to the car that the drivers side of the can interfered with the bumper. Thats what heat and a hammer are for. I tweaked and clearanced the bumper and muffler and it was pretty good. At the time I had a cat installed, but it was a home made setup for smog purposes, and I didnt build it.
It was centered within 1/2 of correct. After running the car through smog and putting some miles on it, I decided it needed to be a little quieter for my taste, and used the test pipe that came with the car to create a second muffler section.
To make it all fit right, I hung the muffler and centered it, as well as leveled it., Then I bolted on the flange to the exchangers. I had this chopped off just after the merge. I then positioned the muffler and pipe in such a way as to pull the M&K back 1/4" for more clearance and to maintain the center. I then tacked and then had to weld slowly to avoid the metal from pulling all over the place.
Anyway, if you just got yours, I would guess they are from the same batch, so if they only have one jig, then the muffler should be pretty correct. Brian was great to deal with, and aside from taking a long time, I was happy overall. I am sure if there is a legit issue, they will handle it.

Tippy · 01-05-2016, 02:38 PM

The fact you got an inch of movement confirms it'll take work to fit.

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

It is easy for the stock muffler to fit, even if the OEM system is badly warped, because of where the stock tailpipe is located. You can push or pull the OEM muffler 1" laterally and never know the tailpipe is off as it will look fine. With the GT3 tailpipes you have ZERO room for error. The GT3 pipes must be on spec in both the vertical and horizontal planes. The only place we could build in adjustment is on the inlet flange. The OEM muffler measurements are of little value when compared to the 1/GT3. The only thing the two have in common is the shape of the inlet flange. The 1/GT3 was not designed around the OEM muffler, it was designed as a stand-alone. The telescoping inlet flange/pipe of the 1/GT3 is angled differently than the OEM muffler and the body of the 1/GT3 is a cylinder, not a hotdog shaped stamped piece of metal. The angles are completely different.

The goal is to have the tailpipes exiting center, where you want them. In order to do that the muffler needs to be mounted to the engine first. Then with the system loose we see what we have to work with. If the cat will not line up with the muffler at that point then we have to take a look at the muffler, which I am very happy to do. Our systems are made by skilled tradesmen in America, not robots. Anyone can have a bad day. We look to improve and appreciate feedback. If other folks have had problems I understand that they vent to others but also please tell us, we can take that info and improve.

al lkosmal · 01-05-2016, 06:44 PM

don,
That is so far off center.
If i had to work too hard to install it and wasn't feeling the love from the vendor, ..........I'd either return it and get my money back, or as you suggested, modify a cat bypass to get it to line up and move on.

The one thing that the stock muffler and the M&K should have in common is the nominal distance from the mounting flange to the center of the car. With both mufflers off of the car and disconnected from the rest of the system....I.E prior to any "fitting" to the rest of the system, i would expect that the dimension from the mounting flange to the center of the 3.2 muffler, as shown by that indent in the 3.2 muffler lip and the center-line between the two exit pipes on the M&K dimension would have to be the same. Your pix clearly show that they are not even close. On the scale of 1-10, 1 being easy and 10 being very hard, installing a new muffler should be a 2-3. All of the welding horror stories and "special" muffler installation juju should not be the customers concern...........

that's just me, i could be wrong.......

regards,
al

haycait911 · haycait911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

don,
That is so far off center.
If i had to work too hard to install it and wasn't feeling the love from the vendor, ..........I'd either return it and get my money back, or as you suggested, modify a cat bypass to get it to line up and move on.

The one thing that the stock muffler and the M&K should have in common is the nominal distance from the mounting flange to the center of the car. With both mufflers off of the car and disconnected from the rest of the system....I.E prior to any "fitting" to the rest of the system, i would expect that the dimension from the mounting flange to the center of the 3.2 muffler, as shown by that indent in the 3.2 muffler lip and the center-line between the two exit pipes on the M&K dimension would have to be the same. Your pix clearly show that they are not even close. On the scale of 1-10, 1 being easy and 10 being very hard, installing a new muffler should be a 2-3. All of the welding horror stories and "special" muffler installation juju should not be the customers concern...........

that's just me, i could be wrong.......

regards,
al

yup. seems a bit much to me too. I've NEVER had to loosen a complete exhaust system, breaking all the gasket seals, just to install a muffler. and even after doing that and trying everything M&K suggested I can only get within an inch and a half!

from responses here and by PM this is far from an isolated incident. M&K shows no inclination to do anything about it so I'm moving to plan B. welding up a custom cat pipe to make it fit. ridiculous.

.

haycait911 · haycait911's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

It is easy for the stock muffler to fit, even if the OEM system is badly warped, because of where the stock tailpipe is located. You can push or pull the OEM muffler 1" laterally and never know the tailpipe is off as it will look fine. With the GT3 tailpipes you have ZERO room for error. The GT3 pipes must be on spec in both the vertical and horizontal planes. The only place we could build in adjustment is on the inlet flange. The OEM muffler measurements are of little value when compared to the 1/GT3. The only thing the two have in common is the shape of the inlet flange. The 1/GT3 was not designed around the OEM muffler, it was designed as a stand-alone. The telescoping inlet flange/pipe of the 1/GT3 is angled differently than the OEM muffler and the body of the 1/GT3 is a cylinder, not a hotdog shaped stamped piece of metal. The angles are completely different.

The goal is to have the tailpipes exiting center, where you want them. In order to do that the muffler needs to be mounted to the engine first. Then with the system loose we see what we have to work with. If the cat will not line up with the muffler at that point then we have to take a look at the muffler, which I am very happy to do. Our systems are made by skilled tradesmen in America, not robots. Anyone can have a bad day. We look to improve and appreciate feedback. If other folks have had problems I understand that they vent to others but also please tell us, we can take that info and improve.

well, you've been told, as requested, so you can go ahead and improve for the next guy. while I'm stuck with a very expensive and shiny piece of stainless that I'll have to spend hundreds more to make fit.

.

jbell959 · 01-05-2016, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

don,
That is so far off center.
If i had to work too hard to install it and wasn't feeling the love from the vendor, ..........I'd either return it and get my money back, or as you suggested, modify a cat bypass to get it to line up and move on.

The one thing that the stock muffler and the M&K should have in common is the nominal distance from the mounting flange to the center of the car. With both mufflers off of the car and disconnected from the rest of the system....I.E prior to any "fitting" to the rest of the system, i would expect that the dimension from the mounting flange to the center of the 3.2 muffler, as shown by that indent in the 3.2 muffler lip and the center-line between the two exit pipes on the M&K dimension would have to be the same. Your pix clearly show that they are not even close. On the scale of 1-10, 1 being easy and 10 being very hard, installing a new muffler should be a 2-3. All of the welding horror stories and "special" muffler installation juju should not be the customers concern...........

that's just me, i could be wrong.......

regards,
al

I agree.... I don't expect to pull out the welder and grinder to install a muffler. I also wouldn't expect, like Don said, to have to pull all the bolts and gaskets to fit a muffler. Specially one at or near the top of the price range.

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

The muffler is not attached to the engine, it is hanging in the breeze. You cannot get an accurate assessment until it is attached to the engine.

I don't understand why you think you are stuck with anything. I have asked many times to send the muffler back. If it is faulty we will make it right.

.

ClickClickBoom · ClickClickBoom's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbell959

I agree.... I don't expect to pull out the welder and grinder to install a muffler. I also wouldn't expect, like Don said, to have to pull all the bolts and gaskets to fit a muffler. Specially one at or near the top of the price range.

And you would be wrong as well. Stainless steel, love it or hate it is not for amateurs.

ClickClickBoom · ClickClickBoom's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by haycait911

well, you've been told, as requested, so you can go ahead and improve for the next guy. while I'm stuck with a very expensive and shiny piece of stainless that I'll have to spend hundreds more to make fit.

.

Or you could follow the mfgs instructions, and do it correctly, or spend "hundreds" and do it your way.
Not sure why the whining is continuing......bourbon?

javadog · 01-06-2016, 07:34 AM

I'm a little unclear on how you are attaching that muffler to a "stock cat." My next question would be what have you fabricated to mount the muffler to the engine? The stock mount is not going to work.

JR

haycait911 · haycait911's Garage

well, this thread went a bit sideways. thanks to all for their input

I don't believe an entire exhaust system should have to be unbolted to put on a muffler. nor should a muffler need to be bolted into place under stress

the responses here and by PM tell me exactly what I wanted to know. the circular responses and complete lack of response to certain questions by M&K has been very illuminating

opinions are like tailpipes, everybody has one

I'm done here. thanks again to all who took the time to respond

.

tobluforu · tobluforu's Garage

I have attached about 6 mufflers to my car, one being a gt3. Each muffler took a little bit of coaxing in regards to pushing and pulling the HE's to get them to attach. The gt3 I had fit great, but it hung 2 inches below the rear FG rs bumper. Once I put SSI's on, it fit perfect. I'm guessing they use a jig when they weld these up, so I'm also guessing that it might have something to do with your HE's, cat, or whatever it is attching to.
Good luck, sounds like they are willing to have you ship it back so go for it.

Tippy · 01-06-2016, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haycait911

well, this thread went a bit sideways. thanks to all for their input

I don't believe an entire exhaust system should have to be unbolted to put on a muffler. nor should a muffler need to be bolted into place under stress

the responses here and by PM tell me exactly what I wanted to know. the circular responses and complete lack of response to certain questions by M&K has been very illuminating

opinions are like tailpipes, everybody has one

I'm done here. thanks again to all who took the time to respond

.

You must have never owned an American classic or muscle car? This is common place.

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

I installed my M&K Premuffler about 4 years ago ( plug and play ) without a hitch after removing the Factory cat.

Recently installed the Factory European Pre-muffler and to my amazement, it did not fit properly. I saw no apparent damage but my buddy had to pull pretty hard on my muffler about 5-6MM so I could align the bolts at the HE/cross over pipe.

So for me, I guess even OEM can be a little off???