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T77911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MYR S.C.
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are these pressures at idle or are you reving the engine up.

2 condensers or 1

stock system

have you driven it to see how it does.

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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
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08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:01 PM
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" 88911coupe"

2 condenser min.
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Kuehl
1987 911 cab, modified
https://griffiths.com/
Old 07-09-2018, 12:07 PM
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I have both original condensers plus an additional large one with a fan in the rear wheel well. Charge was done at idle with large fan on rear condenser. After they charged it up I drove around a while but vent temp never dropped much below 60. Also have new upgraded evaporator, all hoses new as well.
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Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:39 PM
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^^^

You should have ballfreezing a/c given your setup - mine is very similar, I just serviced the system yesterday (upper 90s in my garage) and got vent temps of 27.6 degrees with evaporator blower on max (pressures of 28 and 220) - seat back temps in the 50s, etc, . . . temp and pressure readings at idle and with windows closed (the Griff method for charging that works perfectly). The cabin was so cold and dehumidified, relative to the outside air, that it was shocking.

I know this is very frustrating, but your system has a problem, likely simple, that just needs to be found. Have you tried a new expansion valve, just for shiits and giggles?

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 07-09-2018 at 12:49 PM..
Old 07-09-2018, 12:44 PM
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Before you start replacing parts and writing a 100 page thread.....

Stick a digital thermometer in the evap core to observe what its temperature is.

In general terms, with a normal operating system your evaporator outlet hose fitting will be sweating or frosted on a good system.

If your evaporator core is near freezing and you are seeing much higher vent temps then inspect for air leaks between the plastic evaporator outlet tube and the center vent.
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1987 911 cab, modified
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Old 07-09-2018, 01:08 PM
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Well I've already replaced pretty much every part already...LOL. However I did just do as you suggested and I'm getting 55-56 degree core temp which seems to be in line with 60 degree vent temps. The inlet pipe to the evaporator it very warm to the touch and the outlet is very cold and sweating a lot, but it's definitely not frosty. And thanks for taking to time to help.
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Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 07-09-2018, 04:27 PM
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88991,

I'm reading alot of your observations, yet can not see all the data from one session, reading bits and pieces from multiple sessions.

Ideally, what I'd like to see is the following:

1) Proper evacuation. And, advise how you did it, and how many microns you got down to immediately before charging, not the night before.
2) Amount of R134a in the system measured in ounces or grams, not cans.
3) What is the ambient temperature average around the car (not on weather channel).
4) What is the low and high side pressure at idle, and without any fans on condensers that are not on the car when you are driving.
5) What is the evap core temperature.
6) What is the center vent temperature on fan speed 2 or half fan speed
7) Windows up, fresh air controls to the left, heater boxes closed,
deck lid down resting on the service hose.
8) Which evaporator do you have and did it come with a new TEV attached.
9) How much of what type of refrigerant oil is in the system, in ounces.
10) Is the front condenser blower motor running when the compressor clutch is engaged, and if you have rear fender condenser and it has a fan is the fan running as well.
11) Post a picture of your rear fender condenser so we can see which way the tubes run and how it is plumbed.
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Kuehl
1987 911 cab, modified
https://griffiths.com/
Old 07-09-2018, 06:11 PM
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what are your pressures at 2k
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86 930 42kmiles [__] RUNNING:[__] NOT RUNNING: ____77 911S widebody: SOLD
88 BMW 325is 200K+ SOLD
05 BMW 330CI 130K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
08 VOLVO V70 190K:: [__] RUNNING: [__] NOT RUNNING:
90 B2200[__] RUNNING:[] NOT RUNNING:__2000 MER E320 WAGON [] WRECKED:[]RUNNING:
Old 07-10-2018, 03:53 AM
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Ok, will try to get Kuehl answers to all those questions. I think I can address them all except the Micron gauge reading. However, when I did this same process last year I had a functioning micron gauge and the reading, IIRC, were where they needed to be. The issue is the gauge died at some point over the winter and had been returned to be replaced. One thing I need to point out is that even when I took it to a good AC shop they mysteriously got the same end result as me. I will get all the details and post them as soon as possible.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:53 PM
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Make sure the hose routing or flow through the condenser is correct.
the flow out of the compressor should go into the top of condenser to condense the 134 into a liquid coming out of the bottom of the condenser. I did a car backwards once and had a similar experience.
Old 07-14-2018, 04:33 AM
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OK, saw comment about orientation of new/additional condenser, here is a pic of how it's installed. Do I have in set up wrong? The "tubes" are a little hard to see but they are at the top. The smaller aluminum line is coming from the rear deck lid condenser.

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'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 07-14-2018, 09:22 AM
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"11) Post a picture of your rear fender condenser so we can see which way the tubes run and how it is plumbed."

Appears you have a piccolo tube and fin design, more efficient than a standard tube and fin (alike what is stock on a deck lid condenser), we used them years back and they can do well, if you orientate them properly.

Looks like your 'tubes' are running vertical, up and down. Ideally the condenser should be orientated so the tubes are horizontal, left to right or right to left, with the inlet from the deck lid condenser at the top and the outlet at the bottom. This is not to say the way you have it... you could achieve some cooling performance, however currently it is not ideal.

When the refrigerant leaves the compressor it is a high pressure 'gas' and as the condenser removes the heat from the gas the change of state is from a gas to liquid.
With the refrigerant tubes in the condenser, as you have them, vertical (up and down) its difficult for the liquid to move through the tubes; takes more energy to move it up and down rather than left to right or right to left like going down a set of stairs in simple terms.




I can't see the size of your fittings, however the largest fitting (usually a #8) is the inlet and the smallest is the outlet (a #6). If they are both #8 then you just need a transition fitting from 8 to 6 on the bottom outlet manifold.





I won't say your issue of a warm evaporator core is related to above just yet, however you got a lot of non kosher stuff going on. Might as well get your ducks in order in addition to providing observations (data) from one evac, charge and test session.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:48 AM
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Thanks for the instruction on correct orientation. I'll tackle that and see what happens with the performance once that's done. I guess too much to hope that will solve my issues but at least I'll know it's installed correctly and works efficiently.
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'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 07-16-2018, 03:59 PM
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Is the fan pushing or pulling?
Coolest air should meet the leaving refrigerant.
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Old 07-17-2018, 03:36 AM
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It is "pushing" the air into the condenser.
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'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:09 AM
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Ok...was planning to start ripping the condenser out to reposition it and decided to make sure and provide Kuehl the requested items. I know I need to re orient the condenser but I suspect that may not be the root cause of my issue, which is excessive high and low side pressures with a way undercharged system. However, if this condenser position is likely the cause I'll get right on that.
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'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold, '19 GLC 300 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 07-18-2018, 05:45 AM
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OK...I know everyone has been waiting breathlessly for my annual/summer AC meltdown so here we go...LOL! I wanted to check one thing before I moved ahead. I've vacuumed my system down several times and regularly get to low 300's Microns which I "THINK" is sufficient. It holds vacuum for hours. I have some pics to show the results and set up. Note that the vacuum gauge shows -27.50 at 290 Microns. I have not adjusted to needle to re zero. Here is my question. I hooked up one can of R134, purged the line completely, and let if flow slowly into the low side. IIRC Griff said my static pressures were too high when doing this in the past, indicating ambient air in system and I'm get about 95-100 psi again. I've attached some pic to see if I've done anything wrong and to get opinions. I have not started the car yet to add more cans, wanted to get opinions if this indicates I ALREADY have ambient air in system.
Can't upload pics!? Will try to add in separate post.
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'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:46 AM
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Here are the pics I was unable to add before. Its the gauge set up, Micron gauge and vacuum level that only goes to 27.5 even at 330 microns (have had it below 300). The static pressure after using a single can of R134 emptied into low side (after purging line) is 90-100 PSI depending on ambient temp. Does this pressure indicate ambient air in system? Not sure how that's possible considering the level of evactuation and purging the line before adding the can.


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'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:45 PM
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1) Connect your micron gauge directly to the pump. Run the pump for about 10 minutes. Record the micron level.

2) Disconnect the service set hoses from the car. Leave the micron gauge attached to the service set as you have it in the picture. Run the pump for about 10 minutes.
Record the micron level noted on the micron gauge, and the inches of mercury noted on the low side analog gauge.

3) Disconnect the blue low side service hose from the low side connection port of the service set. Attach the micron gauge to the low side connection port on the service set. Attach the yellow hose from your vacuum pump directly to the 2 purpose port on the center of the service set manifold. Run the pump for about 10 minutes.
Record the micron level noted on the micron gauge.

4) Disconnect the micron gauge from the low side connection port of the service set.
Re-attach the blue low side service hose on the low side connection port of the service set. Leave the yellow hose from your pump connected directly to the 2 purpose port on the center of the service set manifold.
Make before you turn on your pump again be sure the gauge is 'seeing' the ambient pressure around the gauge, meaning you have allowed air to enter the gauge to reset the gauge to its current "zero". Document if the low side needle is pointing on the center of the zero or how much north or south of zero. Then, run the pump for about 30 minutes. Using a 5x magnifier, closely look a the needle on the low side gauge and provide your best estimate as to which 'hash' line scale the needle is most directly over. Record what you noted.
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Old 08-04-2020, 01:53 PM
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Could it be just a defective new exp valve?

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Old 08-04-2020, 04:07 PM
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