2.7 Motor: Keep it, else what's it worth?

[MotoSook]

I have my old 2.7 motor sitting in my garage. It has 11-blade fan up grade and Carrera tensioner. This is not a for sale ad, so please don't dump this into no man's land, moderators. I replace it while I still know little about the 911 motors, but I think I could have fixed it (I suspect CIS problems).

My question: is it worth it to keep for a rebuild? It would be my first (but, I'm practicing on the Streit racing mobile ), so I wont feel so bad about messing up a 2.7.

Anyways, with everyone dumping their 3.0, would I be best to get what I can for it now, then get a 3.0 later. Or will the 2.7 develop popularity? Or what could I do to it to make it more than just a 2.7. I know Roninlb will have lots to say about this.

So if I sell it, what is it worth?

Thanks,

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Souk
Or what could I do to it to make it more than just a 2.7.
So if I sell it, what is it worth?

Thanks,

how about a good used set of S-cams, used RS pistons, and carbs.. then drive it like hell till it blows up.. don't open the case, unless big bucks.. then salvage the remains for a recoup of $$$.. probably best cost effective... party hearty

[MotoSook]

That's tempting Ron. I have a 2.7S so is will it have the "S" cams you are refering to?

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Souk
That's tempting Ron. I have a 2.7S so is will it have the "S" cams you are refering to?

nope.. you have a CIS/light duty cam in there now.. the S-cam that is routinely mentioned is a track or high reving street cam that has some good lift and overlap.. it'll be a bear on the street.. and if you can get your $$$ refunded after the big bang you'll have a good ZTQ [zero tension quotent] rapeing the mother.. I think it's a financial management issue.. the best is after it's dead meat you'll really know what you want to build in the future.. cause it's a personalized machine that should reflect what YOU want.. this is only an opnion, OK.. and IMO, Super is the best financial manager on this BB.. figure out the $$$ numbers for a clearer head..

[Oldporsche]

You will have to get around the fact your CIS piston domes have a big lump on them in the wrong place. This prevents you from using the early camshaft profiles.

With RS style pistons, this motor will rock, believe me! You could look around for some J E pistons or some CE/Aris pistons. Mahle has some 9.5 cr pistons. These would be ideal for this motor with a set of carbs and some early "S" or Solex profile cams.

Probably somewhere around 210-220 hp! You could live with that.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[MotoSook]

This is good stuff guys. That kind of horsepower from a motor that everyone keeps discounting is pretty indeed. So now! WHo has used pistons for me?

[Wayne 962]

Core 2.7L engines can be had for about $500 apiece at swapmeets. There were 3 of them that went for $500 TOTAL at last Pomona. They really aren't worth too much. On eBay, you'd probably get about $800 or so.

-Wayne

[MotoSook]

If a 2.7 can be built to make adequate (210 is good for a 2600 lbs car right?), why can't we accept that there are just too many myths surrounding the 2.7. Argh! For $800 buck, I'll use the cylinders for ash trays!

I guess I'll keep it and build a grenage like Ron suggested. Now, who wants to follow me around to watch the show when the thing detonates?

Marc, thanks for the tip. I read Noah's article a while back, and thought it would be a possibility for my poor 2.7.

[Zendalar]

Just to let u know , those motors go for 2500$ here in Finland. Well, auxillaries are in that price, 1500$ stripped.

Those prices go even for 2.4 liter engines, 3.0 and above that are more expensive.

[MotoSook]

What are they doing to the motors to demand those prices?

Dang! I'll take 2000 for my complete motor and spend 500 shipping it.

You guys must be in a parallel universe over there.

[Zendalar]

Heh, like i was saying the other day, that in the US you can actually find 911 Porsche from a scrapyard. I have not heard of a single one here in Finland that has been scrapped. We restore those even from a rust cube.

I have seen engines go very over the seas, but to get them here, costs a lot.

EDIT:

911 2.4T (-73) moottori ilman apulaitteita. 1500$
(No auxillaries here)

911 2.7 (-74) moottori apulaitteineen. CIS ruisku. Täydellinen kone ilmanputsarista äänenvaimentajaan. Toimiva kone. Suoraan käytöstä. 2500 $.
(Complete engine)

3.0 Carrera moottorilohko 930/02 -76-77. Tähän sopii esim 2.4 ja 2.7 kampiakseli. 700$
(just plain case)

3.0 liter complete engine 3700$

[Wayne 962]

The 2.7L engine is a great motor - more responsive than the 3.0L, depending upon who you talk to. My 3.0L SC motor is rated at 180HP, the 2.7 at 175, with a better torque curve.

The problem is that they are expensive to rebuild (every 911 engine is), and you *really* have to know what you're doing to rebuild it. Without a doubt, the 2.7 rebuild is the *most difficult* of all the 911 engine rebuilds - you need to do everything right in order to achieve a strong running, leak-free engine. The 2.7L is the least forgiving of mistakes.

However, it still makes for a great engine. The 3.0L core engines are not worth too much more - a core 3.0L should fetch about $1500 or so.

-Wayne

[jluetjen]

Souk -- I agree with RoninLB's logic. If the motor is practically "disposable" as it is, then it's not worth the trouble of throwing a lot of money at it -- you'll never get it back. Basically US spec 2.7's are a "dime a dozen". But that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with it -- I agree if the experience is worth it to you, get some JE pistons, different cams and carbs and have fun! I'd even try to use the logic from Grass Root's Motorsports $2002 challenge and suggest that you try to wheel and deal the parts that you need so that you spend as few dollars as possible. The worst that could happen is that you'll wind up with an engine that no-one wants -- but you're there already anyhow! And you'll still have the cams and carbs for resale. I think sometimes people get hung up on the Porsche name and only consider "full restoration" quality work as acceptable. The reality is that it's -- a car -- and some are worth something, and a lot aren't worth that much.

As far as cams, I'd recommend either the early E (AKA Solex) or late E cam grinds. They have the same lift and duration, but the lobe angle on the later E's is greater (and thus the overlap is less so that they're not quite as peaky) for your engine. E cams will give you more usable torque below 4500 RPM then the S cams. The S cam's will be in a league of their own above 4500 RPM, but will get choked off at about 200 HP (6200 RPM +/-) because of the 35 mm ports in your heads. The only way to avoid this is to port your heads out to 36-38 mm's which means more time or money. Considering the build strategy, I wouldn't consider it worth it.

Let us know what happens.

[ChrisBennet]

Perhaps I'm missing something here but is sounds like in everyone's hurry to "slap some carbs on it" they haven't mentioned how much carbs cost. I was under the impression that carbs were expensive. What would a set of carbs for a 2.7 go for?
-Chris

[Zeke]

I have a 2.7 that is looking for a home. No, it's not for sale, a home in a car that I'm looknig for. When I get the car, I'll know what I can do with the motor. Smog or non-smog. I'm hoping to find non-smog (up to and including '74 here in CA).

I have sort of a gentleman's bet with Wayne that I can *freshen* this motor and make some good HP for around $2500 scrounging parts. Of course, Wayne's position is do it right or have a POS.

This thread is interesting as it supports the idea of tossing some parts at a motor that is not the ideal beginning. I see changing the pistons and cams and doing headwork, then adding a different induction if I go non-smog. The only other thing I would do besides the tensioner up grade is the case savers which I would try to install w/o splitting the case. Sure, it's a little mickey mouse, but that seems to be the point here.

MFI systems (not from an S) are cheaper than carbs, but they are not a direct bolt up to the 2.7. Some head work needs to be done for the injectors. If you could find carbs for not too much, that would be perfect. All IMHO, of course.

[JTO]

You know, I just went through the rebuild of a 2.7 liter engine. I did all of the normal case and oil circuit improvements. Improved the breathing a bit by polishing the intake runners and heads. I kept the CSI but added SSIs and a GHL dual in single out muffler. The thing runs like a scalded cat. According to my mechanic friend who's been working on 911 for over 30 years, the thing is much stronger than most 3.0 liters. So, I am happy and I think the 2.7s are unfairly maligned.
My opinion.

Troy

[MotoSook]

Peer pressure or rather support is such a great thing. I am so ready to sell the motor to finance my cosmetic surgery (CTR look conv.), but Milt and troy has really giving me some motivation to keep my tired little 2.7.

[911pcars]

No matter what base engine you start out with, you're going to either spend the money to do it right or cheap it out and build a "low-life" engine. It's your choice.

If you add up the costs for the correct parts (cams, pistons, rings, studs, bearings, gasket set, carbs/manifold/linkage, etc.), machining (case, heads, rods, crank, rocker arms, etc.) and your labor, you'll have at least $3000 into it. The cheapest route is to build it to factory specs with CIS, that way you may not have to change out the pistons or buy carbs.

The 2.7 engine is as worthy to rebuild as the others, especially if you have one already, and like other engines it gets more expensive to add power.

Sherwood Lee (w/2.7)
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[pwd72s]

when it comes to 2.7, I'd rather have an RS!

[Targa Dude]

The 2.7 engine properly built is by far more worthy than the general consensus would ever agree too.
Cost of a Porsche motor rebuild is relative to any motor with regards to upgrding components, power or performance.
For all non believers of the 2.7 all you have to do is walk the paddocks of any race track and take a close look. You will find and be surprised how many 2.7 power plants are being driven hard on a rigorous basis. Why you may ask? They are a true race motor, Power to weight ratio is unmatched, reliability unmatched,
versatility characteristics unmatched, they are strong they are fast.
Why is it when disscussing rebuilding the 2.7 eveyone says,
"Very exspensive rebuild" what is more expensive about rebuilding a 2.7 versus any other motor? it can't be the cost of the installation of the case savers, what $350.00 - $400.00
other than case savers what ever you do to the 2.7 has to be done to all Porsche motors. Can anyone tell me what part of rebuilding the 2.7 makes it so outragous in compared to rebuilding a 3.0, 3.2 so on. and why is concidered more cost effective to swap out a used 3.0 that will eventually need upgrades and repairs of it's own.

Thanks,

Jorge (Targa Dude)