it sounds to me as if you are beginning to come over to the same side and to the same challengers as these other folks are enjoying ;-))

not sure what you mean.

my position has never changed on this. i've done a bunch of conversions like this in other cars. i'm a huge fan of the idea. but, they didn't all turn out perfectly either. sometimes the car just wasn't suited to whatever conversion the customer wanted me to do. sometimes it was perfect.

i'd love to see this work, and i keep hoping. so far, i have not come across one that said to me "this could have been done by a car manufacturer". the example i just saw was incredibly disappointing, especially given how long they took, and how much money was dumped into it.

I've got to say, I felt the same way as flash the first time I drove a sports racer. It was just too fast, the brakes took too much effort, and it seemed impossible they would be able to haul the car down from some pretty insane velocities. The steering was overly precise and the car felt twitchy, and I couldn't get used to modulating the throttle. It was impossible to control the mad acceleration. I just never got comfortable.

In the end, I was really happy to get back into my buddy's Miata, and feel the gentle body roll, nice power brakes, and that hundred buttery smooth horsepower.

I guess I am just more comfortable in a grand touring car.

Is that a Joke?

lol - nope. if you ever get a chance to drive a car like that, you'll know what he's saying. there is such a thing as too much power for the car.

maybe find a Camry?

I don't see what all the fuss is about. This is a very easy swap, all of the problems have been worked out. You can have power steering, A/C, power brakes and all of the options can work. If you are running out of brakes on the conversion you would be running out of brakes with the turbo motor at the same HP levels.
At local car shows, people that don't know what they are looking at think it is the factory motor. It gets comical. One guy asked if it was a turbo. I told him the body was so he told his buddy that it was just an NA and it wasn't that fast, probably only made 150 HP.

getting the motor in there is easy. getting the car working properly is not. just getting the brake balance right is a pain, let alone the suspension tuning and chassis work needed. it's not "plug and play"

too many people just don't know what a properly set up car should feel like, so they think it's "just fine" or they "never had a problem". lol - i guess any sex is better than no sex, but once you've had great sex, your perspective changes.

done right, i think this could be great. done like every one of the street cars i've seen so far, it's a mess. i'd love to see one done right. i'm going to be traveling all over the country, and i would be happy to pop in and see one, wherever it is.

Rasta, Flash,

This is an interesting post. I have allot of respect for Techno as he has been very helpful when I rebuilt my 83 a few years ago. I was surprised when he decided to go to the LS1 route. He has been very methodical in the build process. It is of interest to me because I have toyed with the idea if/when I had to rebuild/replace the engine.

I respect both of your opinions - I wonder: What is a mess? I understand the engine fits one could upgrade brakes and suspension. The devil is always in the details - do you compromise each system (hp, torque, gearing, etc) to create the perfect 'balance' between all of the systems? Are there benchmarks for instance:

Use this LS engine, with these components
Use this transmission.
Use 952 brakes
Tires
Suspension
Exhaust
Stiffen the body
etc, etc, etc,


I believe the end use is equally as important: is it a track car, daily driver, show car, or hot rod?

What are your thoughts?

Hi kdjones2000, that was me. Just found this thread.

Sorry, I think we meant to meet up again later that day at the race, but the car we were driving lost it's (manual) brakes and some other stuff so we bailed out pretty quickly.

I do want to boost the brakes, eventually, although that is not on top of my list.

I've been DD'ing the car for the past two years, have had a number of cars with manual brakes, and presently have a 911 with manual brakes, so, for me, around town, the brakes work well enough that I haven't felt the need strong enough to put the effort into boosting them yet. In fact it feels weird now when I drive one of my other cars that do have power brakes.

On a track car, like the '67 Mustang we were chumping that day, I think power brakes would definitely be a big benefit.

flash968, thanks for your personal opinions, (many) others may reasonably disagree.

if you've ever had the opportunity to drive a properly designed car, it's not hard to figure out what's right and what's wrong. rattly, twisty, finicky cars are wrong. smooth, connected, solid cars are right. this applies to stock and modified cars.

just start with chassis flex. there is a huge difference between the early and late 944 chassis. the amount of flex is easy to measure. the torque of the stock engines results in a certain amount of flex. increase torque and you increase flex. you have to do things to manage that. even porsche did it with the S2 and the 968. it's pretty basic. even the S2 and 968 chassis though is pretty soft. being a unibody, it transfers well, but with double the torque, some further reinforcing is needed.

the extra 100lbs up front also changes the transfer physics, so in addition to needing larger brakes anyway, even more braking needs to be added to the rear, as well as spring stiffening all around to handle both the new weight, and the amount of rear squat due to the increased power and weight transfer on torque. i just went through this on my supercharged car.

as i said, fitting the engine in there is child's play. getting things to all work in concert is the trick. i've done a couple dozen V8 conversions in various cars, including one in a 944. some worked very well. some didn't. it was always about what was done to the rest of the car, and never about just getting the engine in there. in the case of the 944, that guy wanted to make a 1/4 mile car out of it, and using a blown small block ford. i told him it was the wrong car for it, but he wanted it, and was not willing to do the necessary bracing. in the end, the car was left on 3 wheels after the first launch.

admittedly i've only driven one V8 968. it was done by arguably the best shop in the country for V8 conversions on these, with nearly $30k spent in the process, and it was horrible to drive. tons of torque, but no way to control it. in the end, that owner removed the V8 and went back to the supercharged 3 liter.

to do it right, you start with a new motor, a fresh trans and driveline that has been set up for that much power, and then of course the suspension changes, brake changes, and big enough tires and wheels to handle all of that.

i would love to see one of these that has really been done up. i think the concept is sound, and would be great fun to drive. i just haven't seen one yet that has had all of that done. it's likely because it would cost nearly $50k to do it, and that just doesn't make sense to most people. i think it would, and proof of that is in the fact that i have spent $150k on my 968. i almost did the V8 conversion when i did my motor. if i had a decent template to follow, i probably would have. given my experience with the other car though, and the fact that i just didn't want to start a new huge project like that, i went instead with the supercharger.

i definitely think a V8 in one of these would be great. i wish they had gone forward with the 928 cabriolet (they only made 1). i'd have one if they did.

:rolleyes:
Jeez do you ever stop talking out of your ass?
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

roflmao - whatever

[QUOTE=acorad;7196218I do want to boost the brakes, eventually, although that is not on top of my list.

[/QUOTE]

I was trying to get a custom hydroboost mount made by a company that produces them for different applications. They have the vacuum booster and cereal bowl to make the mount, but I lost interest. If you want to contact them I can PM you the contact info. They said it would be about $200 for a mount or $750 for a new system including,fittings, mount and the hydroboost unit itself. You had to provide the MC.

is there more than one hydroboost unit, or is it adjustable? that was one of my biggest gripes about the car i drove. the brakes felt like there was nobody home. the car stopped, though not as well as stock. the pedal really felt like crap though. not confidence inspiring when you consider how fast the car could go with that much power.

You can run GM, Ford or BMW hydroboost. With the BMW unit an original Porsche MC can be used from an 86 951 but not late model, IIRC. With the GM or Ford units an adjustable proportioning valve can be added for bias.

hmmm - i'll have to see what he used. it wasn't a bias issue. it was a complete lack of proper pressure. the pedal feel was non-existent and the car just wasn't grabbing well. it was fine before the swap, and then crap after. it wasn't like air in the lines either. i'm not sure how to describe it. it's like the pressure ratio of pedal to brake engagement was way wrong. it felt a lot like driving an old drum brake car.

OK guys, let's stop arguing about the concept and let the guy finish his car. I am interested in his progress and results regardless of how I personally feel about his choice. Deep discussion on the concept of a V8 944 is for another thread. Less thread-jack and more V8 swap craziness please.

lol - i'm definitely not arguing about the concept. i think the concept is quite sound. i've just not yet seen anything but half-done execution yet. but then, i left the days of cobbled together cars a very long time ago, and have higher standards now. i would very much love to see one that is done properly. i'm sure somebody will do it or has done it. i would love for them to pop up and let us know so i could go check it out. hopefully this one gets done right, and then we can all look on in awe.

I'm going to put my engineer's hat on here. I like to problem solve wholistically, as I have learned making a change to one thing or item in a system affects all of the related components at every level. I'm also of the belief that one bad idea usually generates another.

I'm not a car builder but an avid car fan. I seen lots of muscle car, hot rods, pure restorations and the like. In anything I have done, studying and researching needs to be completed before putting pencil on paper or turning a wrench. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and I like doing things right the first time and I don't take shortcuts.

If I was to undertake this process, I would look at the system: engine, transmission, weight of the vehicle/weight distribution, steering, suspension and electrics to name a few. Even if this is thoughly gone threw and implemented, I'm sure that the car is still a work in progress until enverything is sorted out.

I like looking at this at a man's journey. I don't judge any work until it's done.