Impact Bumper vs 964

[r-mm]

Late impact bumper SC/3.2s of all body styles and millages seem to be having a lot of fun right now. At the same time I haven't seen all that many 964s listed and sold. Curious to hear opinions on if the market is super hot for all of the above or if there's a pre '89 moment happening.

I sold my 3.2 a few years back and after a Porscheless spell have been daily driving a 964. Not particularly interested in selling just armchair observing while I work-zoom

[BLACK3.2]

I used to own a 3.2 G fiddy, and sold it to buy a 964. I don’t understand the G body price pump. They are so much more plentiful than the 964. G bodies are amazing cars to be sure, but the supply:demand ratio doesn’t add up to the prices we’ve been seeing.

[r-mm]

To be clear I'm not trying to take apart the market or throw any shade. I'm just saying I haven't seen all that many 964 sales recently and the ones I have seen have trended to outliers like RSA or 12k mile unicorns etc. Curious where a ~90k mile basic color, honest condition 964 sits these days given impact excitement.

[black_falcon]

Here's a basic color honest condition 964 you'll want to keep your eyes on..

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-porsche-911-carrera-2-45/

[Macroni]

Impacts are the affordable option

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by r-mm

To be clear I'm not trying to take apart the market or throw any shade. I'm just saying I haven't seen all that many 964 sales recently and the ones I have seen have trended to outliers like RSA or 12k mile unicorns etc. Curious where a ~90k mile basic color, honest condition 964 sits these days given impact excitement.

Like myself if you have a 964 you aren't selling unless someone throws FU money at me. I have 4 and have no interest in parting with them. Most I know that have thema re doing the same.

964's are trading hands but more privately than anything else and the prices are a bit outrageous but if you want a nice one you have to pay up for it. Lots of pigs with lipstick out there or overpriced cars needing a lot of deferred maintenance.

[creaturecat]

964's are now being de-backdated ..... that was a short trend.
the S/C is the sweet spot right now. value/dollar. due diligence required, as always ...
the 915 is also becoming more desirable. or less undesirable.
anecdotal - i prefer my S/C over the 964 i owned previously (and i did love the 964).
it's more-or-less a question of where your preferences are on the sports car/gt car continuum.
YMMV and probably does.

[G450X]

964’s have been in demand for many years now and while they are still appreciating, it is at a slower rate than some of the other air cooled cars that didn’t have an “early” run up.

993’s have always been in demand as they are the “last” and most powerful & developed of the air cooled cars. 993’s (like the 964) also maintain a classic roofline and some interior details.

The charm of the SC 3.0 through the G50 3.2 cars (compared to the 964 & 993) are their classic looks, mechanical simplicity, and reliability (when a few issues are addressed). The G body cars have remained fairly affordable (less so the G50 cars), and are finally receiving their due in the marketplace. I feel the mid year cars are lagging slightly due to the mag engine case and a few other well documented problems.

If prices for these cars keep escalating, I’m afraid the true “enthusiast,” who loves to drive & work on these cars, will be priced out of the market. I feel that the coupe versions of the 3.2 G50, 964, and 993 are close to that threshold.

I would hate to see air cooled Porsches, cars that were actually meant to be driven, follow Ferrari’s example with speculators driving up prices that turn the cars into non driven “stocks” that trade hands at ridiculous prices. I recall watching an auction of a 40k mile Ferrari 308 (a fairly common Ferrari) and a prospective buyer from a well know shop saying “what am I gonna to with a Ferrari that has over 30k miles” - eluding to the fact that it will be near impossible to sell.

Another “negative” of the price run ups is that spare part prices have kept pace with the run up and have made it difficult for a “blue collar” enthusiast to buy spares. Not that long ago a good core 3.0 aluminum case engine was around $2.5k - $3k, now it’s probably $7.5k and up. Same for the 915 transmission, less than $1k for a good core to over $2k.

Sorry to ramble, I’ve seen several similar discussions on the same topics. I am concerned that the true enthusiast will be the main casualty if prices continue to escalate...

[Matt Monson]

It’s been more than a decade since those SC engine and 915 low prices you mention were true.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by r-mm

Late impact bumper SC/3.2s of all body styles and millages seem to be having a lot of fun right now. At the same time I haven't seen all that many 964s listed and sold. Curious to hear opinions on if the market is super hot for all of the above or if there's a pre '89 moment happening.

I sold my 3.2 a few years back and after a Porscheless spell have been daily driving a 964. Not particularly interested in selling just armchair observing while I work-zoom

New scam while trying to buy a 964

[KNS]

Originally Posted by G450X

If prices for these cars keep escalating, I’m afraid the true “enthusiast,” who loves to drive & work on these cars, will be priced out of the market. I feel that the coupe versions of the 3.2 G50, 964, and 993 are close to that threshold.

I would hate to see air cooled Porsches, cars that were actually meant to be driven, follow Ferrari’s example with speculators driving up prices that turn the cars into non driven “stocks” that trade hands at ridiculous prices. I recall watching an auction of a 40k mile Ferrari 308 (a fairly common Ferrari) and a prospective buyer from a well know shop saying “what am I gonna to with a Ferrari that has over 30k miles” - eluding to the fact that it will be near impossible to sell.

I think we're reaching that point already. Air cooled 911s won't ever reach the crazy heights we see for Ferraris but enthusiasts are already being priced out. Plenty of guys still get 'em out on the road but more and more of them are spending time in garages.

It sucks...

[creaturecat]

first page: 20% of the dealer "cars for sale" are 964 variants.
is that where the profit lies?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

first page: 20% of the dealer "cars for sale" are 964 variants.
is that where the profit lies?

I’m not sure Tarek counts. That’s all he sells and he only advertises places where it’s free

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by KNS

I think we're reaching that point already. Air cooled 911s won't ever reach the crazy heights we see for Ferraris but enthusiasts are already being priced out. Plenty of guys still get 'em out on the road but more and more of them are spending time in garages.

It sucks...

I disagree if you compare the 308 market to the 911 market prices are higher than what you are accustomed to seeing a 911 sell for but they all have 30k or less miles. i don't think they ever drove them and if you find a 308 with comparable miles to a high mile SC or other 911 usually the 911 will bring more or if you find a sub 30k mile all original 911 it will command six figures in many cases more than a comparable F car of the same vintage. Also they started out as much more expensive cars in the day.

[KNS]

^^ I see what you are saying and do not disagree but 911s and Ferraris used to be bought and sold differently (bought my first 911SC from an Autotrader rag for $12,000, yes, you could find a 308 in Autotrader but it wasn't the norm).

My point being trying to obtain a nice air cooled 911 now is becoming as difficult as some of the lower tier Ferraris. There were a lot more Porsches made and still plenty of dogs to be found compared to 308s, however.

[Kansas]

As much as I miss my 964 and regret selling it for half of what I they’re going for today, I can’t help but think I’d be looking at a $25k engine rebuild if I still owned it. Same goes for my old 993. I spoke to a well known air cooled Porsche mechanic who had been involved in Porsche racing innovations over the years. He said that the 964 and 993 have not aged well compared to the SCs and 3.2s. So much more expensive to maintain and needing tons more $$$ to get sorted after so many years.

[Macroni]

These conversations tend to get circular..... I have been lucky enough to drive all of the air-cooled varieties. I would not kick any model to the curb....

There is no doubt as complexity arrives so does weight and the respective cost of service. This weight in my experience changes the feel regardless of additional power.

I currently own a 3.2L Carrera which I equate to a workhorse model with enough luxury to placate my wife yet still raw enough to make my heart race when chasing mates on rallys while not killing with expensive service requirements.

My list of interesting NA Impacts and 964 to face off

89 Speedster vs 94 Speedster

74,75,76 2.7 MFI Carrera or 3.2L Club Sport vs 964 Cup

[Kansas]

When you go back and read threads from over a decade ago about g body vs. 964, the argument in favor of the 964, seems to be the daily driver-ability of the 964. That’s clearly not the case anymore. Few are looking to “daily” ANY of the air cooled Porsches anymore, except for maybe the 993. Seems the current emphasis is on the best driving experience and visceral “feel” when it comes to the air cooled cars. Just look at all the mods people are doing to add “lightness” and improve the raw feel of steering and suspension. Many are even moving back from the 3.2s to the SCs and middies because they like the old MFI and 915 gear box, as well as the lighter weight. I think for modern day performance and creature comforts, people are moving to the water cooled models. The 964 may always be more valuable, but I don’t think it will ever surpass the g body’s in present and future popularity.

[cassisrot]

Impacts are 911’s, 964’s are 964’s.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by cassisrot

Impacts are 911’s, 964’s are 964’s.

Well said, and the G50s are the final iterations of the classic 911. 964s would still be stuck behind the pack were it not for the Singer effect and similar.