Stumbles Intermittently

[Jhalsey]

Krasuskyp, I will take your advice regarding lowering the engine for better spark plug access but have to wait until I have it running again. My bridge jack is on the other lift so i will have to move the car first.

[Jhalsey]

Ok, while waiting for my new vacuum canister to arrive, I’ve begun to put her back together. New fuel filter, new yellow relay, new rotor, new cap, same Permatune CDI, new Permatune coil, same green wire, plugs back in. I’m drawing a blank with a couple of hose connections. Air cleaner and Intercooler still off but I’m pretty sure the hose connections I’m asking about do not go there. See below:






First pic shows a short small diameter elbow connected to bottom port of the left most valve (there are two electronic valves, the right one connects to the blue hose for the retard input to the vacuum canister).

The second pic shows the passenger side air valve (not sure the correct name) which I believe supplies air to the catalytic converter. It is connected to the same type of valve on the drivers side which eventually ends up at the air pump. All my OE smog systems are still present and hooked up except the Catalytic converter which has been replaced by a “test pipe” which has a fitting for the the air coming from the pump. I can find no hose for the third outlet of this valve facing the front of the car. Perhaps it should be blocked off with a cap. FYI, there is an oxygen sensor plumbed into the exhaust on the drivers side down stream from the turbo. It appears to be OE to me.

Any help greatly appreciated.

[908/930]

The small curved hose on the first solenoid valve is just a port vent mine has the same. On the 2nd pic, no hose attaches on that valve port. At least on my 1987.

[Jhalsey]

Thanks 908/930. Somewhat of a relief that I didn’t misplace the two hoses but also odd the factory did things this way. Perhaps the rear facing port on the air pump circuit is only an input and blocks air flow outwards.

[Jhalsey]

Thanks 908/930. Somewhat of a relief that I didn’t misplace the two hoses but also odd the factory did things this way. Perhaps the rear facing port on the air pump circuit is only an input and blocks air flow outwards.

[Jhalsey]

Well, a breakthrough of sorts. After two weeks of applying penetrant, tapping, shaking, blowing compressed air and manipulating the arm, lots of rust and flakes fell out and I now have approximately 3/16” of movement of the arm when I apply vacuum. So I reinstalled the canister back on the distributor and have been able to verify that the magnetic core does rotate with vacuum applied AND it holds vacuum. The other port still does nothing and slowly leaks down. It is my understanding that this port functions to retard the timing for emissions reasons and can safely be left open to atmosphere and the port to which it connects on the electric solenoid valve plugged. I would like to know your opinion(s) on this and if it necessitates making some change to the engine timing from stock.

So the challenge for today is to install a new distributor cap, latch the cap clips, reinstall the Intercooler, see if it will start and if so, check the timing.

So another question is whether or not to install the 5K resistor in the coil position on the cap in series with the coil wire. This came with the distributor rebuild kit and I can find no mention of it or guidance on what applications require it. Seems like it would have to reduce the voltage and current output from the Permatune unit that the coil sees, not sure if its an EMI thing or if I need it, opinions welcome.

The last thing. I was able to reinstall the distributor with the rotor pointing where it was when removed and the timing adjustment pretty close as well. The engine has not been turned over while the distributor was out. Does anyone have a link to a good procedure for adjusting timing with a standard (non dial back) light. I have the WSM but its description is not the best. Perhaps a YouTube video?

Thanks so much for the assistance, feels like I’m close with your collective help.

[krasuskyp]

no insight on above q's but compelled to mention in case you're new(er) at all this - be deliberate / mindful of all intercooler seals during installation - grease 'em and ensure not pinched and/or mis-seated, verrrrry easy to do and common source of resultant boost leaks 8)

good luck, you're getting close

[Jhalsey]

Thanks krasuskyp, I have been mindful of the intercooler seals and have carefully cleaned, inspected and lubricated them, hopefully all will go back together ok.

[908/930]

Originally Posted by Jhalsey

Thanks 908/930. Somewhat of a relief that I didn’t misplace the two hoses but also odd the factory did things this way. Perhaps the rear facing port on the air pump circuit is only an input and blocks air flow outwards.

Im thinking the large port left open is for engine startup to have no back pressure on the air pump.

On your distributer what side of the advance pot is leaking? I think the one farthest away from the distributer is the main one. Keep in mind ignition retard function is more important than advance on these cars, must pull out advance when on boost.

[Alan L]

For timing with a regular timing light you need to find a +and - terminal to power the unit - I take the rear plastic cover off by the up- pipe. You can get + in there and there is a -ve ground cable above there. I have an inductive clip thing which slips over the #1 plug lead (directional - follows the spark track).
Before you do all that, wind the engine by hand/spanner to Z1, and mark the TDC notch with white marker. (As a double check, your rotor should now be pointing at the notch on the dizzy body). Easier to see where it is under the timing light. Leave the 13mm nut loose on the adjuster, until finished.
Alan

[908/930]

Search Ultimate 930 distributer, advance, retard, timing, look at post #522 by speedy Squirrel. I also bypassed item 38 the temp switch on my car.

[Jhalsey]

The port pointing towards the fan is the one that is still frozen. It leaks down slowly, maybe 10 seconds from 10” Hg. The way this canister was rusted solid I’d say its been that way for a long time, probably years. I was very surprised when the advance mechanism first started to work.

While installing the new Distributor Cap, a couple of the wire ends came off during the tugging to get them off. Looking closely, I noticed that tip of them was screw-like. I was able to thread them clockwise back into the wire to the point where they tightened and would no longer turn and then pulled down the boots over the connector. These are new looking Beru wires with the braided shielding. Hopefully, this arrangement will produce reliable spark. I did not want to go down the rabbit hole of replacing the wires. In searching for info on how the wire ends at the Cap were attached, I saw several posts praising Clewett Engineering wires. Filed away for future reference, not sure if these wires attach the Cap end connectors differently or more securely.

One trick I learned during my struggles to attach the rear clip on the Cap, which may help others, is to rotate the distributor counter clockwise till the adjusting bolt is about halfway in its range of adjustment. At this point the rear clip, instead of pointing straight North, is now pointing North North West and I could more easily get my left hand on the clip with leverage to push it on. An accident really. I also removed the hose that connects from down low to the air cleaner to create more free space around the left side of the distributor. Then of course, return the distributor to its original position. I had already marked the original position before removing the distributor.

Today I will reinstall the Intercooler and see if it starts. Big fun.

[Alan L]

I use a curved piece of flat steel for that rear clip. About 1/2" wide, curved to the profile of the dizzy. Can reach in behind and flick the clip up to the right spot, when you can reach it on top.
Alan

[Jhalsey]

Well, it starts but runs rough, like one or two cylinders not firing. I guess I’ll be rechecking the plug wires for continuity. Maybe ordering another set.

[908/930]

Keep in mind CIS system is pretty old, if it is really cold out the engine can run rough. How long did you run it for?

Pretty sure I have used a piece of wire wrapped around the dist to get the cap clip back on, it has been a while.

[gsxrken]

If you have or can get a digital laser thermometer, you can easily determine if all of your cylinders are firing by shooting at each exhaust pipe right where it bolts to the head.

[Alan L]

Yes - and the other option is to run the engine for 2-3 secs and shut it off. Crawl under enough to get your hand on each header - you will feel the difference.
Concentrate on the cold ones.
Alan

[Jhalsey]

The car is in a heated garage, 65 degrees. Ran it for maybe 30 sec a couple of times. Definitely 1 or 2 cyl are not firing. Also I could tell cranking, the starter was struggling a bit with a fully charged battery so I know the timing is too far advanced but will adjust that once it is running on all 6. Pulled the cap and all looks good in there. Measured resistance end to end of ignition wire for number 6, got 4k ohms, coil wire was 1 k which sounds right to me, about 1K per foot. Will do as many as I can get to. I’m probably going to order new plugs and wires if I don’t find the cause today.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by 908/930

Keep in mind CIS system is pretty old, if it is really cold out the engine can run rough. How long did you run it for?

Really? Mine doesn't. I wouldn't accept it if it did.

If everything is clean, there are no air leaks, and all components functioning correctly it should run smoothly hot or cold.

If it doesn't you're simply accepting one of the above issues imho

[908/930]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Really? Mine doesn't. I wouldn't accept it if it did.

If everything is clean, there are no air leaks, and all components functioning correctly it should run smoothly hot or cold.

If it doesn't you're simply accepting one of the above issues imho

Just how cold are you talking about? When I was out in Toronto the odd time that I had to move my car when it was quite cold out say -8c or 18f it would start right up but run rough for about 10-15 sec then run normal. I never worried about it, ran fine in normal driving temps.