965 leen at hi rpm

[spjuvern]

I have a 965 -91 euro

Ported cylinder heads and inlet manifold, special turbo cams, flame rings, boost controller, adjusteble wur.

Today i goes 12.5 afr 5500-7000 at 0.7 boost
I want to boost 1 bar at 7000 and 11.8 afr

It seams that the controlpresure does not affekt the fuel at hi rpm?
I have tested 3.3-2.9bar CP.
I have 6.4 in systempresure i have test with 7.9bar but no differens

What are my options to get more fuel at hi rpm?
And i also nead a diy rpm switch build.

What fuel pumps are in these cars? I tought it was 2 044pumps?

What does the lamda controllvalve on the fuelhead does and how does it work?

[smurfbus]

You need modded fuel head for extra 20% fuel. Or you can try the lambda port with aic-1 to controle the control pressure even more? Fuel pumps dont help that much.

Or go EFI for unlimited fuel.

[Jeff NJ]

The Leask WUR has the full throttle enrichment threshold adjustment - which changes when the enrichment occurs and a full throttle enrichment adjustment - which changes how much enrichment occurs at full throttle when it is called for. This is separate from the warm control pressure that I think you are adjusting in your post.
Have you lowered the boost enrichment control pressure? This will richen boost AFRs, but only to a point of course.

[smurfbus]

I had no luck with that adjustment.

[Jeff NJ]

Originally Posted by smurfbus

I had no luck with that adjustment.

Yeah, it can only increase fuel delivery if you're not already maxed out elsewhere, which based on your mods, I assume you are. I have the stock fuel head and bolt ons (K27HFS, rarlyl8 headers and exhaust, TK IC, leask wur, 1bar TiAl WG) and I still have some room left to richen it up using that adjustment. I assume if I went with some more mods (like yours), or more boost, I would run out of fuel too.

[JFairman]

It cost around $1000 to have the fuel head modified to flow up to 20% more fuel when full throttle and the control pressure regulator modified to be adjustable.

Then if you pay someone else to do the installation and tuning thats a bunch more money spent.

Or you can sell all the CIS stuff if it works properly... There's a market for that since some people want to go back to stock for the resale value.

In the end it can be around the same money if you sell the CIS and change over to EFI if you use some of the less expensive hardware and install it and tune it yourself. Then you have sooooo much more horsepower and adjustability it's unbelievable.
CIS is old and very limited but it can work smoothly when it's good.

[smurfbus]

My ignition is pretty close to efi only a lot harsher to tune with only 8 points for timing but still full seguential with 123/TUNE distributor. I might leave it alone for now and only do fueling with the ms3pro to get rid of the pumping losses with the plunger. Or try the cis once more now that I discovered my tank filter was all gooed up. That explained the front 044 cavitating also.

[heliolps2]

I would never use twin 044's , together they bump the fuel pressure to high and leans out the afr's across the board, Your better off running a single 044. Lower you system pressure and should be better on higher RPM's.

[JFairman]

Originally Posted by smurfbus

I had no luck with that adjustment.

I didn't either.. it's worthless. The other Brian Leask adjustable WUR adjustments work well though.

[RarlyL8]

If you have the boost fuel pressure fully adjusted on the WUR and cannot get below 12.5:1 AFR it is time to modify the fuel distributor. This is assuming the fuel distributor is still stock and using the Lambda system. Once the distributor is modified you will need to re-adjust the WUR.
The RPM switch only delays the boost signal to the WUR, it does not help with fuel flow at the top end. We handle fuel distributor modifications and I believe I have a modified -145 aluminum fuel distributor in stock if interested.

[smurfbus]

P

Originally Posted by heliolps2

I would never use twin 044's , together they bump the fuel pressure to high and leans out the afr's across the board, Your better off running a single 044. Lower you system pressure and should be better on higher RPM's.

You can always dial the system pressure lower even with two 044 pumps. I use 6bar after testing different pressures. I forgot to add that with my aic1 on the lambdaport I have a harsh fueling map too that works pretty good if rpm vs. Airpressure can be considered good anyway. You always have to compromise cruising to performance on boost set up. The plunger is the worst part on my system.

Has anyone measured the pressure delta over the plunger? A magnetohelic pressure differential gauge would be handy with these engines to see where the pressure losses are worst.

[spjuvern]

Originally Posted by smurfbus

You need modded fuel head for extra 20% fuel. Or you can try the lambda port with aic-1 to controle the control pressure even more? Fuel pumps dont help that much.

Or go EFI for unlimited fuel.

Could you explain how this is working and what i nead?

[spjuvern]

Originally Posted by JFairman

It cost around $1000 to have the fuel head modified to flow up to 20% more fuel when full throttle and the control pressure regulator modified to be adjustable.

Then if you pay someone else to do the installation and tuning thats a bunch more money spent.

Or you can sell all the CIS stuff if it works properly... There's a market for that since some people want to go back to stock for the resale value.

In the end it can be around the same money if you sell the CIS and change over to EFI if you use some of the less expensive hardware and install it and tune it yourself. Then you have sooooo much more horsepower and adjustability it's unbelievable.
CIS is old and very limited but it can work smoothly when it's good.

I dont want to go EFI on this car i like the oem look but I want to adjust it as good as posible with the cis
I have worked with tuning efi turbo cars for 10 years but cis is new for me

[spjuvern]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

If you have the boost fuel pressure fully adjusted on the WUR and cannot get below 12.5:1 AFR it is time to modify the fuel distributor. This is assuming the fuel distributor is still stock and using the Lambda system. Once the distributor is modified you will need to re-adjust the WUR.
The RPM switch only delays the boost signal to the WUR, it does not help with fuel flow at the top end. We handle fuel distributor modifications and I believe I have a modified -145 aluminum fuel distributor in stock if interested.

I dont see any afr below 12.5:1 after 5500rpm no matter what CP i set.
So i am guessing there are no more fuel?

Is frankencis a better sulution than using a RPM switch on my adjustble wur?

I need to controll that lamda system to get Max fuel out?
How do i do it?

[spjuvern]

How mutch HP could i see with the std 965-91 euro turbo?

[spjuvern]

Some pictures of my engine and car

[RarlyL8]

If you still have the stock -145 fuel distributor then the Lambda system needs to go before it can be opened up to adding more fuel. The bottom chamber is changed to Euro pre-lambda design. Once this is done the distributor will have greater capacity than what you can get out of the -037 Euro unit. Shoot me an email (RarlyL8 at yahoo dot com) for more info if interested.

[smurfbus]

Originally Posted by spjuvern

Could you explain how this is working and what i nead?

Search my handle and aic-1 on this forum. There is one thread where I wrote what I did. Before me thierry, st123(?) and stup did something similar but on the wur line. Mines on the lambda line although I was told it cannot be done that way?

I have one extra aic-1 with boost control I could sell as if I go efi I dont need spare parts anymore.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/573970-my-fueling-finally-ok.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/558825-split-second-aic1-setup-problems.html

[spjuvern]

What HP numbers Could i see with the original 965 K27 turbo?
And at what boost are you running?

If i want to check the systempresure during a full pull where is the best place to take out the fuel on a 965?
Today i have this block with a switch betwen controlpresure and systempresure
But the engine is going to stop when i switch to systempresure so i can not run the car.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by spjuvern

I need to controll that lamda system to get Max fuel out?
How do i do it?

I hope to be able to answer that this weekend. I'm hoping to get a few WOT runs and see how AFR tracks with MS controlling the lambda valve.

You most likely do not need the eWUR block and its injector and damper, but will need an MS, and the MAP sensor.