The vaccine

[javadog]

Just for ****s and giggles, I went and reviewed all 29 of Mr. Carlton‘s posts in the thread he referenced. Links to them here:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/search.php?searchid=23138480

A few were factual, most were argumentative, and I don’t think he made a good case for himself. It’s clear he comes down on the side of vaccination, but isn’t concerned much about the side effects. I don’t mean the really nasty ones, like dying a week later, but the more insidious ones that might degrade your health over a considerable period of time. Some of his claims I think have been debunked but I’m not going to be drawn into an argument here. Suffice it to say that I’m on the other side of the vaccination question and none of his arguments persuade me otherwise.

We are both entitled to our opinions, will just have to agree to disagree. I’m somewhat dismayed that he’s so concerned about unvaccinated persons. He is vaccinated, what’s to fear? The Almighty vaccine has him covered.

[island911]

Nice ^

Originally Posted by flipper35

I can tell you first hand this chart is not correct near where I live.

One hospital, according to staff, had over 80% of hospitalizations were vaccinated but the news reported them as having 90% unvaccinated.

This is at the crux of the problem. - the information streams.

I have been an information junkie for some time. -watching and comparing info streams. One thing is certain, the MIC (media industrial complex) is highly organized in their messaging. It's not enough that they dominate the information stream with their "information" but they also have "information" suppression campaigns in Google and Spacebook, and Twit universe...

First hand information is always welcome. First hand information should also be looked on with question of motives, yet one thing is certain, MIC information is PACKED full of motive. Some believe that MIC motive to be purely altruistic. -Those people are idiots.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by javadog

Just for ****s and giggles, I went and reviewed all 29 of Mr. Carlton‘s posts in the thread he referenced. Links to them here:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/search.php?searchid=23138480

A few were factual, most were argumentative, and I don’t think he made a good case for himself. It’s clear he comes down on the side of vaccination, but isn’t concerned much about the side effects. I don’t mean the really nasty ones, like dying a week later, but the more insidious ones that might degrade your health over a considerable period of time. Some of his claims I think have been debunked but I’m not going to be drawn into an argument here. Suffice it to say that I’m on the other side of the vaccination question and none of his arguments persuade me otherwise.

We are both entitled to our opinions, will just have to agree to disagree. I’m somewhat dismayed that he’s so concerned about unvaccinated persons. He is vaccinated, what’s to fear? The Almighty vaccine has him covered.

Agree on being on the side of vaccination. I'm not concerned about the (mostly treatable) side effects of vaccinations. Not when compared to the effects of hospitalization and death. It's a no-brainer.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as being from me regarding "the really nasty ones, like dying a week later, but the more insidious ones that might degrade your health over a considerable period of time." Please clarify.

Also please clarify what claims I've made that have been debunked.

We will need to agree to disagree. Isn't the more noble purposes of threads like these to discuss and explore the different sides to this? I agree I am dismayed at what problems unvaccinated people are causing. Are you aware of any?

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by island911

You realize that 0.1% of millions is how we got into this viral fear mode, right? - 0.1% of millions is a lot of people.

Stop moving the goal posts.
You said the vax doesn't work.
95%+ of those in the hospital are not vaxxed.
Stop spreading misinformation, you lying piece of garbage.

[Steve Carlton]

Somebody wears a tinfoil hat. Too bad it doesn't work in both directions.

[aschen]

Originally Posted by flipper35

I can tell you first hand this chart is not correct near where I live.

One hospital, according to staff, had over 80% of hospitalizations were vaccinated but the news reported them as having 90% unvaccinated.

I mean why believe some anecdotes from staff. Did they or you compile statistics with any rigor? Why believe the news? I agree there. Yet there is a ton of actual compiled data that says the vaccine is remarkably effective at keeping people out of the hospital. Been posted again and again in the various threads.


My anecdotes, have about a dozen friends and family that are Drs. They all say overwhelming majority of those hospitalized for c19 are unvaccinated. My brother in law who is a pulmonologist, whos prime job is taking care of c19 patients, says you would have to basically be insane not to get vaccinated at this point (at least for the vast majority of people). Hey just another anecdote of what some guy said though


Also as more people get vaccinated we are getting closer to the base rate fallacy Bayesian trap of statistics. If 100% are vaccinated a 100% of those hospitalized will be vaccinated. Statistics from US in aggregate were interesting because they are straightforward to interpret with near 50% vax rate.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by island911

Nice ^
This is at the crux of the problem. - the information streams.

I have been an information junkie for some time. -watching and comparing info streams. One thing is certain, the MIC (media industrial complex) is highly organized in their messaging. It's not enough that they dominate the information stream with their "information" but they also have "information" suppression campaigns in Google and Spacebook, and Twit universe...

First hand information is always welcome. First hand information should also be looked on with question of motives, yet one thing is certain, MIC information is PACKED full of motive. Some believe that MIC motive to be purely altruistic. -Those people are idiots.

You're not providing first hand information on anything in this thread.

[island911]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Stop moving the goal posts.
You said the vax doesn't work.
95%+ of those in the hospital are not vaxxed.
Stop spreading misinformation, you lying piece of garbage.

NO... I implied that the vax has problems. One of which is that it fails a lot of people. Not ALL of the people.

So Stop spreading misinformation, you lying piece of garbage.

[island911]

Originally Posted by pavulon

You're not providing first hand information on anything in this thread.

Ah, you want people to know about your reading comprehension problem; ok.

I was responding to flipper35 who wrote "I can tell you first hand ..."

Hope that helps.

[techman1]

First hand information is just that, first hand information.
Collected from that specific situation.
"Originally Posted by flipper35

I can tell you first hand this chart is not correct near where I live.

One hospital, according to staff, had over 80% of hospitalizations were vaccinated but the news reported them as having 90% unvaccinated."

"According to staff" means what, exactly? The janitor was questioned?
A nurse from the children's floor?

If I want recommendations on antivirus software for a MAC, I go to someone who has worked with MAC's and repaired virus infections. Not my next door neighbor, who heard from a friend that MAC's could not be infected, no need for software.

I will collect information from epidemiologists regarding the viability of treatment. Not a podiatrist from Podunk, BFE.
Not a politician. Not a neighbor, or someone with a great youtube following.

Want information on diagnosing a early 911 fuel injection problem? Trust someone you know nothing about, or search the archives and rely on Grady, or some of the other posters here whom have been vetted. Or you can trust Bob, down the street, who has built a lot of V8's.

Island911 - other than your great research within social media, What do you KNOW about the field of Epidemiology?

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by flipper35

I can tell you first hand this chart is not correct near where I live.

One hospital, according to staff, had over 80% of hospitalizations were vaccinated but the news reported them as having 90% unvaccinated.

Prove it or stfu.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by aschen

I mean why believe some anecdotes from staff. Did they or you compile statistics with any rigor? Why believe the news? I agree there. Yet there is a ton of actual compiled data that says the vaccine is remarkably effective at keeping people out of the hospital. Been posted again and again in the various threads.


My anecdotes, have about a dozen friends and family that are Drs. They all say overwhelming majority of those hospitalized for c19 are unvaccinated. My brother in law who is a pulmonologist, whos prime job is taking care of c19 patients, says you would have to basically be insane not to get vaccinated at this point (at least for the vast majority of people). Hey just another anecdote of what some guy said though


Also as more people get vaccinated we are getting closer to the base rate fallacy Bayesian trap of statistics. If 100% are vaccinated a 100% of those hospitalized will be vaccinated. Statistics from US in aggregate were interesting because they are straightforward to interpret with near 50% vax rate.

My wife had a coworker tell her that over 50% of the staff at our local hospital refuses to get vaccinated because they think it’s dangerous. Mind you, his wife is a nurse at said hospital. So I called my good friend who’s wife is the head of anesthesia at the hospital to see if I could confirm this claim. When he asked her she took the phone to tell me that first and foremost this is a blatant lie. Over 90% of all the staff is vaccinated while over 95% of the people clogging the beds and filling the ICU are unvaccinated. She wanted to know this nurses name but I wouldn’t give it to her. The point of my story is that people like island and his ilk don’t want to see the numbers when they don’t fit their narrative. There will never be a chart that they believe unless it supports their nut job theories.

[aschen]

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Agree on being on the side of vaccination. I'm not concerned about the (mostly treatable) side effects of vaccinations. Not when compared to the effects of hospitalization and death. It's a no-brainer.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as being from me regarding "the really nasty ones, like dying a week later, but the more insidious ones that might degrade your health over a considerable period of time." Please clarify.

Also please clarify what claims I've made that have been debunked.

We will need to agree to disagree. Isn't the more noble purposes of threads like these to discuss and explore the different sides to this? I agree I am dismayed at what problems unvaccinated people are causing. Are you aware of any?

You dismiss the potential side effects from the vaccines. In your mind, the benefits of being vaccinated far outweigh any side effects. My point was that, without considering the most serious effects like dying from the vaccine or some people getting seriously ill after getting it, my concern is with the suspected long-term effects that haven’t been thoroughly studied yet. One example of that would be clotting of blood vessels, particularly the very small capillaries. I’m talking about damage to the walls of these vessels, those damaged that are too small to pick up on scans. I think there’s a very strong likelihood of that and there’s no going back once it’s a problem for you.

I don’t believe that you can say that immunity from a vaccine is better than natural immunity from having had Covid and survived it. I think the jury is still out on that question, as more time passes I think the vaccine immunity is being seen to be less effective. In that context, I’m not limiting the discussion to Covid only, I am looking at degradation in your immunity to other things.

I don’t think we have a good handle on how big a problem the unvaccinated really are. I see numbers tossed around about the mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated patients in hospitals and I’ve seen where those numbers have been proven to be wrong.

I also question why we think we know that the vaccinated are much more protected against serious illness, when most of the recent illness is from the Delta variant which is supposed to be less lethal anyway. How much is due to the vaccine? How much is due to the less lethal nature of the variant? I don’t think anybody has a good handle on that.

I also think that ADE is a real problem and the vaccines are making it worse.

I also don’t think we were on our way out of this thing, I think we are seeing seasonality and mutations causing dips in the curve. I don’t think we are in a pandemic, I think Covid is endemic and we are seeing that expressed in the curve.

I don’t think the FDA and CDC were corrupt under Trump and are all fine now under Biden. In fact, I think it’s worse. The head of the CDC has turned out to be as unreliable as Fauci and I don’t think much of the acting head of the FDA. I think she was brought in to ramrod the approval of the Pfizer vaccine. I posted an article about her the other day that was less than complementary. She had a hand in the opioid epidemic and was not going to be approved in the Senate to run the FDA, and the White House knew that. On the very day that the vaccine approval was announced, they all but announced her departure. I find that timing to be anything but coincidental. I also think there were problems in the approval process for the Pfizer vaccine that have been papered over. My personal feeling is that it’s not any safer than the others; certainly it’s not as safe as I would like to see it documented before getting it, and that it was just rammed through so that the politicians would have more ammunition to force people to get vaccinated. The feds know that they can’t legally mandate it but they are working hard behind the scenes to force corporations and others to do the mandating for them. They have acknowledged that, live on TV. If you think I trust a single ****ing soul in the Biden administration, you need to rethink that.

That’s about all I care to add to this discussion, I’ve discussed it elsewhere and nothing ever gets anything accomplished.

[island911]

Originally Posted by upsscott

My wife had a coworker tell her that over 50% of the staff at our local hospital refuses to get vaccinated because they think it’s dangerous. Mind you, his wife is a nurse at said hospital. So I called my good friend who’s wife is the head of anesthesia at the hospital to see if I could confirm this claim. When he asked her she took the phone to tell me that first and foremost this is a blatant lie. Over 90% of all the staff is vaccinated while over 95% of the people clogging the beds and filling the ICU are unvaccinated. She wanted to know this nurses name but I wouldn’t give it to her. The point of my story is that people like island and his ilk don’t want to see the numbers when they don’t fit their narrative. There will never be a chart that they believe unless it supports their nut job theories.

I have not once said nor implied that the majority of hospitalized are vaccinated.

But I get it, you have to support your nut job theories with lies and exaggerations.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by island911

NO... I implied that the vax has problems. One of which is that it fails a lot of people. Not ALL of the people.

So Stop spreading misinformation, you lying piece of garbage.

It fails a small amount of people. It was always going to do that. The vast vast majority of vaccinated people are safe from Covid. Stop spreading crazy lies and unsubstantiated info.

[island911]

Originally Posted by upsscott

It fails a small amount of people. It was always going to do that. The vast vast majority of vaccinated people are safe from Covid. Stop spreading crazy lies and unsubstantiated info.

99.xx survival rate. - The vast vast majority of UNvaccinated people are safe from Covid. Stop spreading crazy lies and unsubstantiated info.



See how that works?

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by island911

I have not once said nor implied that the majority of hospitalized are vaccinated.

But I get it, you have to support your nut job theories with lies and exaggerations.

So I’m lying about actually speaking to a doctor who runs a department at our local hospital? There was zero exaggeration in my post.

[island911]

Originally Posted by upsscott

So I’m lying about actually speaking to a doctor who runs a department at our local hospital? There was zero exaggeration in my post.

You exaggerate (straw-man) my position. I am not disagreeing or challenging your numbers. Yet you say that I am. ""The point of my story is that people like island and his ilk don’t want to see the numbers when they don’t fit their narrative."

Again, when someone even slights the vax the emo twits break out the "Conspiracy theory!!" straw man. - talk about ilk who don’t want to see the numbers when they don’t fit their narrative

[island911]

IOW, Someone points out a facet of a problem with the vax and the emo twit brigade be all. ..