Forum biased

[Porsche-O-Phile]

There was a Supreme Court ruling not that long ago that upheld the notion that "free speech" did not extend to private property (as I recall it had something to do with some protesters at a shopping mall or something). Anyway, if that's the Constitutionally-upheld standard in our "free" society now, then let's extend that to its logical conclusion and say that since this is a privately-owned bulletin board, it's ultimately up to the owner (Wayne) and his duly-appointed moderators to determine what kinds of speech can and cannot be tolerated here.

Similarly, I do not want to hear your "my god can beat up your god"/"my religion is right, yours is wrong" crap at the local (privately owned) coffee shop, restaurant, place of business, or in my home. Want to preach it to the winos/crackheads/hookers in the public park? be my guest.

Keep your religion outta' my government and we'll all get along just fine.

And FWIW David Hasselhof can't hold a candle to Newman for pure raw man sex appeal.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile

And FWIW David Hasselhof can't hold a candle to Newman for pure raw man sex appeal.

i'm surprised that nobody here has brought up the Porsche boys yet... James Dean , and Steve McQueen

or dare i say it , Robert Redford.. ( in his 912 oooooh)

[notfarnow]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile

And FWIW David Hasselhof can't hold a candle to Newman for pure raw man sex appeal.

He's creepy, and I bet he shaves his junk

Originally posted by svandamme
i'm surprised that nobody here has brought up the Porsche boys yet... James Dean , and Steve McQueen

or dare i say it , Robert Redford.. ( in his 912 oooooh)

Or the 911 tech forum man-god:

[svandamme]

Originally posted by notfarnow
He's creepy, and I bet he shaves his junk

Or the 911 tech forum man-god:

i think he's a bit one-sided... only has one look
and it ain't no "Blue Steel"


or "Magnum"

[livi]

I am not familiar with the different 'schools' within Christianity. I am sure you are right. But I am likewise not sure how that completely disagrees with my general point. I have certainly not studied neither the Bible nor the Koran in detail (obviously), but is it not plausible to claim that the premier leaders of for example Islam and the Catholic church have a mandate to interpret the holly texts as they see fit (exaggerating here to make a point)?

As an example: Where in the Bible does it say contraceptives are forbidden? OK, so lets assume it does. That rule is about 2000 years old by now. The world have changed. The incentives too.

Bad example? You are probably right.

How about this: Where in the Koran does it state that people of a different opinion shall be put to death? Salman Rushdie comes to mind. If it in fact is stated in the Koran I rest my case. If it does not, it means premier leaders of Islam claim the right to interpret as fit - forcing the masses to follow order or they will miss out on the large congregation of virgins in heaven.

Or perhaps I simply donīt know what I am talking about and better shut up. Its a possibility..

[notfarnow]

Anecdote:

A few years ago I had a buddy who was OUTRAGEOUSLY ghey, to the point where I even found it a bit much and I'm pretty liberal. I just found he was trying to emanate his ghey TV heroes a bit too much, and it was boring.

Anyway, he has since been "reprogrammed"... his family sent him to some de-gheying clinic in the states, and he came back as a high-strung, judgmental self-hater. He is now out to save other gays from themselves.

I liked him more when he offered me h###jobs. He's creepier now.

[scottmandue]

Interesting how much of this banter is about "my god s your god" or this religion Vs that religion when the vast majority of conflict on this board seems to be Christian Vs anti-Christian.

Also interesting that in my experience some atheist are just as zealous about their point of view and determined to force it on the rest of the world as the religious nut jobs running around out there.

YMMV

[svandamme]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Interesting how much of this banter is about "my god s your god" or this religion Vs that religion when the vast majority of conflict on this board seems to be Christian Vs anti-Christian.

Also interesting that in my experience some atheist are just as zealous about their point of view and determined to force it on the rest of the world as the religious nut jobs running around out there.

YMMV

perhaps those atheists feel upset with all the religious hatemongering in the world?? Islamic extremism, Christian fanaticals, or perhaps the Jewish orthodox colonists??

perhaps the world is so polarized with the Christian/Judism vs Islam thing , that the atheists feel like stuck inbetween a rock and hard place?? finding no tolerant message from either side..so they feel they have to speak up for themself?

you say atheisme = anti christian
you're missing the point that they are not anti christian
they just don't believe in any god or theology...
there is a difference, atheists do not go to churches to convert christians.. while the opposite is true.. christians do go out to hedonistic places to convert souls.

atheists generally do not go out and kill christians either


personally , i'm not an atheist.. and i'm not a follower of any abahamic religious movement
the only thing i would like , is that folks do not impose their will on others forcefully...

having a debate , even with a zealous point of view imposing ones view.. it can still be ignored by those who do not wish to listen or read...i don't see what the problem is

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally posted by svandamme
anti war is an opinion
it's not a group of people with a unique trait

Yes they are, they are pinko hippies...body odor from lack of washing is a unique trait...

Originally posted by svandamme
the problem is when one group attacks the other group in public, and states they are sinfull

You mean like "Bush is a terrorist"?? That kind of public attack? How about Cheney is evil? What about "F you, Mr. Bush?" Are all these "attacks" against a group or person or just some of them?

Originally posted by svandamme
just like Christian fanatics who openly go after gay folks
or even worse, come up with programs that prey on gay people in emotional peril, to pretty much brainwash them into thinkingthey have a disease...

Brainwashing...hrm...any proof of that one?

i

Originally posted by svandamme
advocate tolerance, and not harrasing one another with ones personal convictions...to have some ethics and tolerance as opposed to fanaticism

being anti war , is not a personal attack on anyone
being anti gay , is a personal attack on many
so is anti christian , anti muslim , anti jew or even anti women

don't twist things ND...it just prooves what i said initially
and that is that such thing would scare religious folks

i also said, that it would in theory not be needed
if only the religions would apply the ethics that are allready there from within.... Christ did not teach anyone to be a biggot... he did not teach hate, anger, and judgemental thinking...

You are correct. Christ taught against those kinds of thinking. However, that doesn't mean that he teaches that all sin is ok. The adage goes "Hate the sin, love the sinner". That's pretty straightforward to me.

The problem with your scenario is that you seem to only want people to be able to speak their minds if they agree with you. You are for gay rights, womens rights, and minority rights. You are for the right of people to have anti-war demonstrations, or anti-religion demonstrations or anti-Bush demonstrations.

Your tune does a 180 degree turn when it comes to those you happen to not agree with though. Christians? Let em talk in their own church, just don't talk to me or talk in public. Anti-abortion? They should just shut up and let women make the decision.

Freedom of speech for only those you agree with isn't freedom of speech at all.

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by svandamme


you say atheism = anti christian
you're missing the point that they are not anti christian
they just don't believe in any god or theology...
there is a difference, atheists do not go to churches to convert christians.. while the opposite is true.. christians do go out to hedonistic places to convert souls.

atheists generally do not go out and kill christians either

Thanks for proving my point!

I didn't say " atheism = anti christian"

Historically many atheists governments have killed Christians, China, USSR to name two... and there are governments killing Christians today.

Atheists may not go to church to convert people but they most certainly do preach their lifestyle in TV, Movies, on this BBS, by taking cheap shots at Christians every chance they get.

[svandamme]

Anti abortion is fine, but don't go burning clinics, assaulting doctors or women going for one... their body afterall, if the law permits it , then nobody should harras those women going for one

if you do't like the law, well then fight for legislation ,
if you want to get your vote in .. wel, vote for crying out loud
same for gay marriage, vote

anti war , and anti gays is not comparable
the war is not a noble thing to defend
there is no civilised country with a constitution that says " right to start random wars"
most do have freedom of religion

i till this date , have not ever seen an anti christian protest ? at least not in a civilised country

yet there are those christians who actively go after gay people , and convince em that they are defective ( see above friend of notfarnow )
those reprogrammers are out there, and they are in my opinion quite nasty pieces of work... they do prey on people who are vulnerable.. nobody with a strong personality would subjet himself to such a thing
be that they are weak by nature, or because of constant bad luck or what not , doesn't matter, nobody should ever be programmed by others into thinking that they are defective, and then corrected

[scottmandue]

Do you like gladiator movies?

[svandamme]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Thanks for proving my point!

I didn't say " atheism = anti christian"

Historically many atheists governments have killed Christians, China, USSR to name two... and there are governments killing Christians today.

Atheists may not go to church to convert people but they most certainly do preach there lifestyle in TV, Movies, on this BBS by taking cheap shots at Christians every chance they get.

that's communisme, not atheism it's not a synonym
your average Atheist is not comparable with Stalin or Mao

[svandamme]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Do you like gladiator movies?

there are no gladiators in that movie
not one.

personally i found that one a POS
and not because the lack of gladiators...

[scottmandue]

Originally posted by svandamme
that's communisme, not atheism it's not a synonym
your average Atheist is not comparable with Stalin or Mao

Oh so it's okay to lump all Christians together as a stereotype but atheist get to pick and chose who they are associated with?

And you got to admit Brad pitt is hot....

[livi]

It is sooo frustrating to discover how handicapping it is to lack the language skills!!!! Itīs impossible for me to find the right nuances I am looking for when a debate is more complicated. I very much like a vivid, intelligent and open minded discussion and according to friends and colleagues I am a competent verbal combatant. In Swedish!!!

This is driving me crazy. I read your eloquent posts but itīs just hopeless for me to find the exact words that, put together in a sentence, expresses how I mean. Itīs like the verbal parallel of an elephant in a porcelain shop.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by scottmandue
Oh so it's okay to lump all Christians together as a stereotype but atheist get to pick and chose who they are associated with?

And you got to admit Brad pitt is hot....

in what way did i lump all Christians together, in a way that's negative for all?

i'll admit that i even lumped teh christians together with the jews and the muslims.. but i didn't call em all evil, sinfull and wrong now did i?

you seem to think i'm anti christian
i'm not in anyway , i have no beef with devote christians who actually believe in christ and try and live the way the New Testament indicates as being how Christ lived himself
non judgmental, non violent and forgiving...

Brad Pitt , liked him better in other movies.Snatch for instance... looked really rough as a tatoo sportin' bare knuckle fightin' pikey...

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by livi
Itīs like the verbal parallel of an elephant in a porcelain shop.

You mean a bull in a China shop there Swedish boy.


Your english is 100x better than my Swedish so you win.

[Superman]

We don't disagree much Rick, at least on the subject of religion. Yes, each person should have a personal relationship. Both Catholics and protestants rely on clergy for help in interpretation. Interpretation can be tricky. I look much further than my local parish priest. I look to the accumulated body of theological learning. Also known as "The Church." It's not a matter of some guy dreaming up his answer to various questions and mandating agreement from everyone. Nope. The Pope sits on a GARGANTUAN mountain of existing wisdom. That wisdom is embodied in a document called The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Two things: Yes, Catholics and every other kind of Christian should have a personal relationship and should do their own Bible reading. But I also believe strongly that anyone with theological curiosity and an interest in deepening their understanding of their relationship with God should pick up a copy of the Catechism and read it. It's very inexpensive and PACKED with theological wisdom you would instantly recognize. When folks diss The Church (I know this is not what you do), they are dissing two thousand years of prayer and study. Protestant religions after all, have about one fourth that experience. And as far as I know, two thirds of the Christian world is still Catholic. America is the land of the fast food burger, and the pick-and-choose faiths.

[svandamme]

Originally posted by livi
It is sooo frustrating to discover how handicapping it is to lack the language skills!!!! Itīs impossible for me to find the right nuances I am looking for when a debate is more complicated. I very much like a vivid, intelligent and open minded discussion and according to friends and colleagues I am a competent verbal combatant. In Swedish!!!

This is driving me crazy. I read your eloquent posts but itīs just hopeless for me to find the exact words that, put together in a sentence, expresses how I mean. Itīs like the verbal parallel of an elephant in a porcelain shop.

trust me Livi , i have to rack my brain constantly as well
especially with them americans on this board, keep in mind , that "debate class" is actually something that is tought in the US schools... never seen it in Europe... then there is the english class , many of em learned shakespear and other famous writers in school ... i just learned it from watching hte A-team and Happy Days with Fonzie...