Teachers with Guns

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by berettafan

"yo tyronne, Mr. Jones has a 9mm in his back pocket, let's get it!"

If the point is to prevent Columbine, VT type incidents then it ain't gonna be tyronne doin the shooting.

So having said that I agree that teachers carrying firearms is a BAD idea.

I won't let my kids go play at a friends house where guns are kept. I certainly don't want them in school with one.

I don't care how much you train them. They are not professional Law Enforcement Officers.

Now pilots I'm ok with. A large percentage come from a Military background. And if they don' they are still trained to remain cool and logical in difficult situations.

Simpler solution, hire trained security if you are so concerned.

Leave it to a professional.

[Rick Lee]

But they do hire security guards and they can't stop the shootings! When's the last time a LEO stopped one of these shootings before lots of people were shot?

And how does someone hate guns? Can you really hate an inanimate ojbect? If so, there are plenty others involved in far more deaths of kids than guns - cars, swimming pools for example.

[skipdup]

There are so many ways this could be done safely and effectively.

Obviously, not sitting in some desk drawer or in a woman's purse! Geesh!

Why not in a permanently attached lock-boxes, spread throughout the school? Or, something like that?

And, if teachers are unstable. And, security guards are unstable. Why would anyone think a retired cop is any less unstable? There are plenty of unstable cops out there... And, some of them retire.

My .02
Skip

[rammstein]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

And who pays attention to those rules? Only the people who are no threat to begin with. The nuts ignore those rules, they ignore federal and state gun laws, they ignore laws against shooting people, they ignore EVERY law. No law deters them. And every single one of these school shootings has only ended when A) more guns arrived on the scene or B) the shooter killed himself. Not one has ended in negotiations.

I agree 100%. The first part of my post was simply a preface, stating the obvious fact that each school is (and should) have the right to determine whether or not teachers can carry guns. Just as parents should have the right to put their kids in a different school if they don't like the decision made.

That being said, the more I think about it, the more I like the armed security monitor idea. That way, you can have somebody trained and stable on hand.

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

How about we teach our kids to respect other kids and not pick on them when they are different?
...

How do we do this? Not saying we shouldn't do it. But, I wonder "how" we do it.

And, is it only kids that are "picked on"? Or, is it also unstable kids? Outcasts? Kids with problems at home? etc?

Was the VT guy picked on?

- Skip

[rammstein]

Originally Posted by berettafan

and btw, if you want a poll that says 'is it possible that the recent school shootings could have ended quicker with less injury/loss of life if teachers were allowed to carry guns in school?' then go ahead and post it. the answer is a very obvious 'yes'. it's a simple answer to a simple question. and i do mean 'simple'.


but to be fair you would also need to post an additional poll which asked 'is it likely that we would see an increase in school shootings if teachers were allowed to carry guns in schools?'.

I like this response. You make valid points here.

Ultimately, nobody can be certain that a security guard/cop/teacher is stable and capable of handling a firearm. The idea here, I think, is to play the odds. Odds that some of my old teachers could be trusted to handle a firearm are pretty slim. Odds that with some screening and monitoring you could have a security guard without a screw loose- better.

[Evans, Marv]

As a former educator, I say no.
What is needed is actual support from school administration and parents. When a kid has behavioral, emotional, stability, social, or problems from home that warrant attention, intervention, etc. Parents and administration should be held responsible for implementing corrective action after problems are identified by teachers or staff. Most of us know problem students sent to the Principal's or VP's office are put back into the classroom after 15 minutes, and the parents are never contacted, informed or held responsible for correcting their kid's behavior.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by skipdup

How do we do this? Not saying we shouldn't do it. But, I wonder "how" we do it.

And, is it only kids that are "picked on"? Or, is it also unstable kids? Outcasts? Kids with problems at home? etc?

Was the VT guy picked on?

- Skip

Its hopeless, honestly.

My sons are both in private school, try making fun of a student in there and your kicked out.

A girl with MS went to his school last year, all the kids must give speeches when they graduate from 8th grade (The school goes to 8th right now) and when she gave her speech there was not a dry eye in the house. She told about how she was picked on in public schools and her parents pulled her and began home schooling. Then they found out about this school and sent her for the last 2 years, she said she never felt like a more normal kid in her life and her fondest memories were from the last 2 years where she was accepted as an equal.

Try that in a public school.

There is a boy this year with polio, he walks with braces on both legs and is really tiny. Imagine how he would be treated in public school? He is in 5th grade.

20+ years ago I watched kids with mental and physical handicaps get picked on relentlessly. Try to interfere and your the next target, you just keep your head down and try to blend in. If your a star on the Football team you basically got a pass to torment all you want. I saw this all the time.

Like I said I am surprised there are not more shootings every day especially with this whole emo thing going on. Way more so than when I was a teen.


Like I said before give teachers guns and the first bullet from the student goes their way.

[Vipergrün]

Heck yes! My wife IS a teacher and I would fully support her packing in the classroom, even at the grade school in our little town.

I personally think teachers are more stable than a lot of the general population, yet I am biased. I think the notion that school shootings would increase if teachers packed is nuts.

Also, baretta-dude, what's the difference in chances of a teacher 'losing' it and mis-using the weapon, vs. some Billy Bob with a CCW permit who get's pissed off over a traffic incident (please see road rage thread).

[rammstein]

Some of you should see the teachers from my hometown. Picture asylum-types and you are on the right track.

[legion]

Originally Posted by rammstein

Some of you should see the teachers from my hometown. Picture asylum-types and you are on the right track.

And going to middle school/high school in Naperville, I had mostly very competent and well-rounded teachers. Even the ones I didn't agree with still had the students' best-interests at heart.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Legion those what if's haven't happened because teachers don't carry guns to school.

How do you know that teachers are not carrying on school grounds now?

Prior to my wife becoming a nurse, she was a teacher for one year in the ghettos of North Houston. She had a CCW permit at the time. You have to satisfy some requirements to get one and they train you on gun safety. One thing they teach you is not to leave it unattended, like in an unlocked drawer, etc, etc.

She never shot any of the kids that outweighed her by 150 lbs and were quite confrontational(black and hispanic kids, 95 lb white chick with blonde hair, yeah she was a target of some interest) She let them know if they hassled her they might get a chance to be dressed up in a nice suit in a box, but that was as far as that went. She did not get raped or assaulted, they did not get killed, good arrangement for all.

If they think you might be packing, it keeps them honest. Just like locking your car keeps honest people out, but would not stop a pro thief for a second.

[Scott R]

82% of all teachers are female, my wife included, and I can't think of any of her friends that would want to pack heat. In fact I'm pretty sure that none of them own guns. I can't even imagine where on my wifes tiny body she could holster a gun without looking like a beat cop. I suppose her response would be, what color pants match this holster. Even it were allowed I doubt it would be very effective.

[berettafan]

stomachmonkey please forgive the 'tyronne' comment.. it was in poor taste.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Its hopeless, honestly.

My sons are both in private school, try making fun of a student in there and your kicked out.

A girl with MS went to his school last year, all the kids must give speeches when they graduate from 8th grade (The school goes to 8th right now) and when she gave her speech there was not a dry eye in the house. She told about how she was picked on in public schools and her parents pulled her and began home schooling. Then they found out about this school and sent her for the last 2 years, she said she never felt like a more normal kid in her life and her fondest memories were from the last 2 years where she was accepted as an equal.

Try that in a public school.

There is a boy this year with polio, he walks with braces on both legs and is really tiny. Imagine how he would be treated in public school? He is in 5th grade.

20+ years ago I watched kids with mental and physical handicaps get picked on relentlessly. Try to interfere and your the next target, you just keep your head down and try to blend in. If your a star on the Football team you basically got a pass to torment all you want. I saw this all the time.

Like I said I am surprised there are not more shootings every day especially with this whole emo thing going on. Way more so than when I was a teen.


Like I said before give teachers guns and the first bullet from the student goes their way.

This is how it was in my prep school. Pick on a kid and you were gone, no refund to the parents. We had a 500 acre campus with NO security AND even had a skeet team with the guns and ammo kept in a storage shed. Believe me, smart rich kids on a huge campus with no security could cause a LOT of trouble. But it never happened. Closest call there ever was, some kid was in front of the disciplinary committee for some minor infraction. Something he said to a teacher at the hearing was interpreted as a veiled threat. He was gone immediately. They didn't even let him pack up his room. Called a cab for him, called his parents, sent him to a hotel and mailed his stuff home.

[mattdavis11]

Teacher, no
Principal, no

Janitor, **** yeah.

[targa911S]

My daughter is a teacher in Cleveland and stories like this make me fearful for her safety. That being said, as you know I am a gun guy and trained and licensed to carry. Would I recommend she get trained and carry to work? In a word, no. She is not these kids parents, and that is where the story really starts. Now if you asked if I should sit in her room every day, armed, I would say hell yes. I have visited her during school hours, and she has said her kids said I was scarey.

[Tobra]

That guy that shot all those people in Wisconsin last week was a professional law enforcement officer.

Long as the kids are prevented from bringing weapons(which is generally not done, there are some with metal detectors, but by and large not.)

[Sonic dB]

Not surprised to see an overwhelming yes vote so far in this forum.
but it is a dumb question.

My father was a teacher for 30 years... no way would he have wanted to or felt
comfortable carrying a gun in the classroom.

We didnt have guns at home either.

More guns is not the answer for anything, except the military and law enforcement.

So, to put an armed police officer or trained private security (better police though) in each public school in
every town + on campus at each university in all buildings is a better answer. Cant afford this? OK cut back
one of the billions $ that our government is wasting in Iraq and devote it to local security.

Suppose that Va Tech had an armed officer in the building that the punk Cho shot up... do you think Cho would even
try that knowing that there was an armed officer there? Would he had been chaining doors... no way not if there had
been an increased security presence there to deal with Cho first.

[SlowToady]

It would seem that less guns isn't the answer either.

Look, people are going to kill each other, and do it in the most convenient way possible. Note that "convenient" doesn't necessarily mean "easy to obtain." If there are no guns, people will just hack one another to death with knives or axes. It's just fact, there's no way around that. Case in point: the kid who hacked his parents up, went to school, tried to hack some people up, but was stopped because a teacher (Army Reserve) ran to his car and got his piece.

Suppose that students at VaTech had been packing. Would Cho still have done it, knowing full well that many, many of his potential victims might have similar weapons, but greater in number? (I know we're discussing teachers, not students, but it's just a thought exercise.)

I voted 'yes', but overall I'm still unsure, although leaning more towards 'yes' hence my vote.