Throwing kids out, how's it work? - Page 5

masraum · 02-09-2009, 08:39 PM

I was supposed to meet him after work today to talk. I hadn't heard from him all day and texted him when I got off at 4 to ask if he'd be available at 6ish. I didn't hear back until a while later. He called from the local county low rent hospital. Apparently one of the cops that went out Sunday when he pulled his stunt stopped back by today and asked him how he was doing. He said "not so good" so the cops took him to the "free" hospital. He called and said that he hadn't seen a doctor yet (I assume it had been hours) and was going to check himself out. He said that he had a list of homeless shelters and was going to one of those and would call when he got there. I told him to be careful and told him to let us know that he arrived ok. I think he was assuming we'd run down to the hospital to pick him up.

I didn't hear anything back for a few hours when the doctor called. He asked me to give him some history. He said that Justin was a good prospect for assistance because he knew that there was a problem that needed to be fixed and said that they could get Justin some professional care. He then was very adamant about Justin being able to speak to his mother. I was very adamant about that not being a good idea, but she over heard and said that if it would help that she would talk to Justin. I'm still not sure that it was a good idea, but she did talk to him. I guess he apologized. She basically told him that she loved him and always would. He asked her if that was it. I think he is still angling for us to go get him, but we aren't. The little prick, but he's the one that's got problems, so it's not surprising or unexpected that he'd still be pulling crap. I told him that we were very happy that he was going to get help. I asked him to only talk to me for a while. I'm sure that he's been thinking that it's been my idea to let him hit bottom and if he got to talk to her that she'd rescue him. For better or worse, she's so stressed out by the whole situation, that she's not trying to.

Hopefully he's a few steps closer to being at rock bottom and will actually take advantage of some of the professional help.

Holy crap, it feels like this is consuming my life. I like to relax a bit when I come home from work, but being at work is actually more relaxing.

Based on Rob's scale above, I seem to run the scale from Anger to Frustration over the course of a day. At this time, I do spend most of my time wanting to kick his butt, so I guess I'm mostly angry.

Thanks all for letting me vent.

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

My heart goes out to you Steve!
Good Job Today!!!

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

There are times I'm happy to go to work. Buckle up, it'll be a rough ride, but sounds like you did good tonight.

m21sniper · 02-09-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T77911S

the bad thing with this is if he has a drug problem and does not kick it, it will come out in the military, then he is stuck with a dishonorable discharge.

You have to literally murder or rape someone to get a dishonorable.

T77911S · 02-10-2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

You have to literally murder or rape someone to get a dishonorable.

probably true. i have a friend that got busted for drugs in the military. i think he got an other than honorable discharge. he is very smart with electronics (also what i do). i tried to get him a job with the FAA. no luck. he told me he put the military thing on his app. i think that is what hurt him. either way, dishonorable or other than honorable, both are bad. he may have just gotten lucky with the other than honorable too.

steve, stay strong. you are doing the right thing.
sounds like he was thinking that talking to his mother would make her feel sorry and come get him.
only offer assistance as long as he is in some kind of program.

bivenator · 02-10-2009, 07:55 AM

Steve, terrible circumstances, my thoughts are with you and your wife. It is a tough road. I was glad that your wife and you are on the same page regarding Justin. Often these situations can lead to a great deal of tension between the spouses. Be wary of this and proactive in your relationship with her.
best of luck,
Scott

Hard-Deck · 02-10-2009, 09:05 AM

Steve,

My opinion: You're doing great! This is hard and we're here for you.

On the military question: I have to tell you that we wouldn't want him as a hardened drug user any time soon. We are not interested in having to watch our young troops who carry guns, or work on aircraft that other people fly (or tanks or.....whatever). We all trust our lives to the people next to us and unfortunately your son is not that person. However, if he were clean for half a decade or more and admitted to his past he could be vetted into service.

Keep up the interested tough-love you're practicing and take advice from the ones here who are giving the good thoughts and we all succeed together.

masraum · 02-10-2009, 12:17 PM

Wow, this is hard. He got released from the hospital today, and is now at the "Star of Hope Men's Development Center". It's hard to leave him at a shelter. I'm going to drop off his ipod charger, passport (he doesn't have any other ID) and some cloths tonight.

911Rob · 911Rob's Garage

I feel for ya bud; but remember this.... even the tiniest bit of help from you will make him worse! Trust me, it will. Look at all the help you've given him and what did it result?.... worse.

Tell him that.
Tell him all he needs to do is admit he needs help and get on the wagon.
"Professional" help.
Tell him he's destoying his mother and you can't allow him to talk to her anymore until he starts to clean up his act.
He is right where he wants to be; it was his choice.
Be positive, firm and decisive when dealing with him; he'll understand that you mean business. You're not confronting him, you're at his side, but he has to take the steps on his own, under his own free will.

Good Luck!

T77911S · 02-11-2009, 05:44 AM

when i was part of the celebrate revovery at our church, street reach people attended. it is a homeless shelter here in town. i got to be very good friends with one of the guys there. now he is out on his own. it was hard or different for me when i would go there to see him. this may do him some good. if he does not like it there, it may give him the drive to get off his butt and make his life better. encourage him, give moral support, but do not let him back in the house. i would be reluctant to give him money. the only way i would let him back in is if he is in a program and has been in it at least 6 months.

keep it up. your doing great.
how is the wife doing?

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Too bad he's not 17. You could drive him to Kansas and turn him in at a hospital...

SLO-BOB · 02-11-2009, 06:54 AM

Just read the thread front to back. It wasn't hard to guess where it would head, and it's also not hard to guess where it's going. I'm very sorry to hear that you and your wife are going through this. Unless you've dealt with it, as you said, tough love is easier said than done.

I think you know this probably will not end well. It's important that you and your wife accept that possibility and also accept that there is little, if anything, you can do to save the life of one on a self destructive path. Seriously - at this point you need to consider your wife's emotional state (and your own as well) above all else - even the step son's. Sorry to be a downer. I've been here twice. One didn't make it. I spent 10 years trying to fix something that couldn't be fixed. Alanon, therapy, midnight runs to get her out of jail, etc. All for nothing. I finally realized I was doing nothing to help the problem and cut off contact. Hardest thing I've ever done in my life. The other did make it, but was in and out of jail/prison/rehab until recently. I think she finally has had enough and maybe, just maybe, will have a life worth living. Albeit one that is severely limited by felony convictions, etc.

I wish you and your wife the best. Stay strong.

masraum · 02-11-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard

Too bad he's not 17. You could drive him to Kansas and turn him in at a hospital...

Hahah, that's a great idea. I once heard a comedian with a great bit once. He said that this whole 12 week limit for abortions is completely wrong. He said that at that point you don't even know if you like the kid yet. He said that it should be 6 years. Not only do you get a chance to know the kid, but it would make a great discipline option. "You'd better straighten up or we'll be going to the clinic this weekend!!"

masraum · 02-11-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T77911S

keep it up. your doing great.
how is the wife doing?

She's not really doing very well. Hanging on by her fingernails.

masraum · 02-11-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

Just read the thread front to back. It wasn't hard to guess where it would head, and it's also not hard to guess where it's going. I'm very sorry to hear that you and your wife are going through this. Unless you've dealt with it, as you said, tough love is easier said than done.

I think you know this probably will not end well. It's important that you and your wife accept that possibility and also accept that there is little, if anything, you can do to save the life of one on a self destructive path. Seriously - at this point you need to consider your wife's emotional state (and your own as well) above all else - even the step son's. Sorry to be a downer. I've been here twice. One didn't make it. I spent 10 years trying to fix something that couldn't be fixed. Alanon, therapy, midnight runs to get her out of jail, etc. All for nothing. I finally realized I was doing nothing to help the problem and cut off contact. Hardest thing I've ever done in my life. The other did make it, but was in and out of jail/prison/rehab until recently. I think she finally has had enough and maybe, just maybe, will have a life worth living. Albeit one that is severely limited by felony convictions, etc.

I wish you and your wife the best. Stay strong.

My wife had 3 kids, one by a first husband. That child stayed with the husbands family until he was about 13 and then he moved in with us. Unfortunately the damage had already been done. His father used to regularly use suicide to get attention and would check himself into places. That stepson learned the technique from his father, but then got into drugs and eventually succeeded.

This one is a bit different, but still very troubled. I don't know that he'd actually commit suicide intentionally, but we're aware of the possibility of an alcohol or drug induced accidental death.

Fortunately, my stepdaughter is pretty much a model kid.

m21sniper · 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T77911S

probably true. i have a friend that got busted for drugs in the military. i think he got an other than honorable discharge. he is very smart with electronics (also what i do). i tried to get him a job with the FAA. no luck. he told me he put the military thing on his app. i think that is what hurt him. either way, dishonorable or other than honorable, both are bad. he may have just gotten lucky with the other than honorable too..

Generally speaking people with drug problems will get chaptered and get a "General discharge". A GD has two codes- "Under honorable conditions", and "other than honorable conditions." (or less than honorable conditions- i don't remember exactly)

So what your buddy got was a general discharge. Tell him not to put his military service on any more apps, it doesn't HAVE to follow him around for the rest of his life unless he wants it to.

T77911S · 02-11-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Generally speaking people with drug problems will get chaptered and get a "General discharge". A GD has two codes- "Under honorable conditions", and "other than honorable conditions." (or less than honorable conditions- i don't remember exactly)

So what your buddy got was a general discharge. Tell him not to put his military service on any more apps, it doesn't HAVE to follow him around for the rest of his life unless he wants it to.

i assume you are army or marines by your title. not too many snipers in the AF.
AF policies and procedures can be different.
after i found out about it, i told him not to put it down any more. i have talked to him in a while, last i heard he got laid off/quit. they were cutting his pay so much he left.
no matter what the discharge for drugs, its not worth the risk until he is clean

m21sniper · 02-11-2009, 09:38 AM

Yes, i was US Army.

The USAF is far more strict about drugs.

Whoooo: Post #6000 for me. LOL....

jcommin · jcommin's Garage

I haven't read all 5 pages of this post but I get the general sense of your issue.

First let me say I empathize with you. I had a similar problem with my own son. It isn't easy. Kid/children/stepchildren issues can damage and destroy your own relationship with you wife. I can only imagine the angst you and your wife are going thru.

The toughest thing for any parent is knowing when you have had enough. It certainly was for me. Changing the rules, raising the bar, making excuses is nothing more than enabling. Ask any recovering addict or alcoholic. I threw my son out of the house in June of last year because I could not take it any more. I got tired of the 'sorry card' the 'not my fault card' on and on. My parting words to my son: "I have tried this your way and it doesn't work, I'm doing this my way".
I was depressed the entire summer, beating myself up for not doing enough, looking at my parenting as a failure, lowering my own self esteem. I was embarrassed and ashamed.

I cut him off monetarily, took cars away. He could only come over upon an invitation. Coming to my home unannouced, I would call the Police.

Now you need to walk the walk in whatever you do. Telling somone to go to hell, you need to mean it.

My son went to rehab in December of last year and has been sober. He has enrolled in school and is getting good grades. Do I trust him......no way. Would I take him back.......someday, not yet. He hasn't proved himself to me and more importantly to himself.

My only advice to you: You need to learn to forgive yourself. It isn't your fault, not yours to fix.

When my son left in June, I gave him a copy of the parable of the Prodical Son found in the NT of the Bible. I told him to read it.

I am waiting for my son to return. Don't know how long it will take, but I wait.

Good Luck,

Jim

T77911S · 02-11-2009, 09:50 AM

nice story jim, put a teer in my eye. this probably means more to him than any.